Grisee08
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DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:06 am

Hello All,

I am genuinely curious as to where Delta's 717 pilots came from. Are they former/current MD-88/90 pilots, did they come from NW, or Legacy DL, or maybe even AirTran/Southwest? I am just wondering if they are type rated on the MD-88/MD-90, so they also went through the crash course (pardon the pun), and got type rated on the Boeing 717-200 (McDonnell Douglas MD-95). I seem to be leaning toward the direction of former DC-9-30/40/50 pilots. I am just curious since many pilots tend to stay with a certain type, while others will switch from one type, to a completely different type.

Are there any current DL 717-200 type rated pilots, either CAPT, or F/O? If so, which aircraft did you previously (or currently) fly?

Also, how long do pilots who previously/currently fly the DC-9, MD-88, MD-90 have to train for in the simulator to get type rated on the 717, and once they do, can they bid on trips with either of the 3 aircraft types, or does DL like to keep them on one type? (I.E. Capt. Dave just got type rated in the 717, after flying the MD-88/90 for 8 years)

Thanks for any info you can give.
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TWA772LR
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:13 am

When a mommy 717 pilot and a daddy 717 pilot love each other very much...
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N766UA
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:20 am

Some are new-hires, some are guys who came from pick-an-airframe and went to the 717. It’s no different from any other type in their fleet.

MD88/90 is a seperate fleet from the 717.
Last edited by N766UA on Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
DarthLobster
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:21 am

DC-9s? The 717s came online as the 9s were being phased out.
 
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:23 am

(Twilight Zone Voice) They came from a place, a place in which you work during the holidays and make little money flying in a machine that is often assembled in Canada or Brazil. They call this place, The Regional's...
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flight152
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:24 am

They came from Delta.

End of thread.
Last edited by flight152 on Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
N766UA
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:33 am

flight152 wrote:
The came from Delta.

End of thread.


Nailed it
 
jetmatt777
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:38 am

Airline industry is all about seniority.

Just like any other new type, they open the training up to bids. Anyone from the most senior captain to the most junior FO can put their name in the hat. When they close the bid, they start with the most senior pilot and work their way down the list. In theory, an international 747 captain making $300k a year could bid for the 717 spot and get it. So the answer "they came from Delta" is correct.

They would train them just like they would train the pilots who fly the A350.
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ilovelamp
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:41 am

A 717 pilot actually has a DC-9 type rating on their certificate. The same goes for a MD88/90 pilot. The transition training course from 88/90 to 717 is considered a short course at Delta because it requires less training than, for example a 88/90 pilot switching to a 737.

The 717 is largely considered the most junior fleet due its smallest size, lowest pay, and 3-5 legs a day of flying. As a result like someone said above, it usually goes to new hires or chosen by those who are chasing the quickest gain in seniority versus other fleets.


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qcpilotxf
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:46 am

DarthLobster wrote:
DC-9s? The 717s came online as the 9s were being phased out.



The 9s had been gone a long time when the 717s came online.
 
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:53 am

qcpilotxf wrote:
DarthLobster wrote:
DC-9s? The 717s came online as the 9s were being phased out.



The 9s had been gone a long time when the 717s came online.


Last Delta 9 was retired Jan 2014. The 717 started with Delta in fall of 2013.
 
SPREE34
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:38 am

flight152 wrote:
They came from Delta.

End of thread.


Agree. But then, this is A.net, and there's that possibility of Aliens.
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:18 am

ilovelamp wrote:
A 717 pilot actually has a DC-9 type rating on their certificate. The same goes for a MD88/90 pilot. The transition training course from 88/90 to 717 is considered a short course at Delta because it requires less training than, for example a 88/90 pilot switching to a 737.

The 717 is largely considered the most junior fleet due its smallest size, lowest pay, and 3-5 legs a day of flying. As a result like someone said above, it usually goes to new hires or chosen by those who are chasing the quickest gain in seniority versus other fleets.


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Or the pilot that likes flying and wants more flights/day vs fewer longer flights. I've met some that would go to a smaller plane so they can get more cycles/day.
 
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:19 am

ilovelamp wrote:
A 717 pilot actually has a DC-9 type rating on their certificate. The same goes for a MD88/90 pilot. The transition training course from 88/90 to 717 is considered a short course at Delta because it requires less training than, for example a 88/90 pilot switching to a 737.

The 717 is largely considered the most junior fleet due its smallest size, lowest pay, and 3-5 legs a day of flying. As a result like someone said above, it usually goes to new hires or chosen by those who are chasing the quickest gain in seniority versus other fleets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Thanks for giving an informative and respectful reply to the OPs questions.

And for all the other smarties who keep writing that the DC-9s were gone before the 717 arrive at DL I have a newsflash for you: The 717 IS a DC-9.
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:21 am

As others have said, everything is seniority based in terms of bidding position, aircraft, and base.

When DL was onboarding 717s, they posted vacancies in specific bases including captain and First officer positions in specific bases. Pilots were selected based on preferences based on seniority order.

In many cases, the 717 Captains were either First Officers upgrading to Captain from other fleet types, or other Captains typically coming from other narrowbodies that maybe wanted a specific base or types of flying. Some DC-9 Captains moved over to 717 or even some people who maybe were an NYC M88/M90 Captain moved to ATL 717 CA to get a base they wanted.

In many cases the 717 FOs were new hires, or DC-9 FOs or MD88/90 FO's coming from a different base.

People select a fleet, base based on on a combination of factors including location, type of flying, quality-of-life and so forth.

They did not come over from WN/FL unless they applied and joined DL as a new hire.
 
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:45 am

I just wanted to add that every Delta 717 pilot is made of People. They are all made of people. Not aliens.
 
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:01 am

Flighty wrote:
I just wanted to add that every Delta 717 pilot is made of People. They are all made of people. Not aliens.


Next thing they'll be treating passengers like cattle. You gotta tell them! Delta 717 pilots are people! We gotta stop them!
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:10 am

I see this great poster in the international crew room in ATL . It is a DC-9, 717, MD-99, MD-90 all next to each other. We flew all 4 types for a few months. As another pointed out, they are all DC-9s. They are great jets and I am glad to have 9 years flying them on 3-6 leg days. It taught me airline operations at a rate equal to drinking out of a fire hose.

Interesting issue. Delta was the first operator of the DC-9 and by the looks of it will be the last in the US to operate it.....in 717 form but it is still a DC-9.
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:13 am

flight152 wrote:
They came from Delta.

End of thread.


I realize you were blessed with knowing all there is to know about Aviation, but for us less perfect people this actually wasn’t a bad question.

An airline introduces a (sort of) new airplane type to its fleet in relatively short order. Obviously DL didn’t have hundreds of 717 type rated pilots sitting around. Did they come from other models or newly hired or what?

Other more polite posters explained it.
 
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:17 am

Disclaimer: this is going to get a tad long-winded, but hopefully it answers your question as well as some others:

As others have stated, everything within a pilot's life at an airline is based on seniority. Airplanes, bases, routes, days off, etc.

The #1 guy at the company can bid whatever he wants; the last guy at the company gets what's left over. If the number 1 DL B777 CA with 35 years at the company woke up one morning and wanted to bid B717 FO next month, there's nothing stopping him from doing so, and he would get it (provided there's an opening for it). Would he? Probably (most likely) not. But he could. Now, the most junior guy at the company who's flying as a B717 FO could also throw a bid in for B777 CA.... but there's no chance at all that he'd get it, because tons of people senior to him would be bidding the same thing. And seniority dictates all.

Keep in mind, there are also different ways of measuring seniority: within the company as a whole, within one's base, within one's aircraft, within one's seat (CA/FO), and combinations thereof. What I'm getting at here is that a mid-seniority guy (company-wise) at DL could be eligible to be a junior B717 CA or a senior B777 FO. Furthermore, if he's based out of LAX, his relative seniority for a lateral (same acft) move to NYC may give him a relative seniority "bump" since LAX is a more senior base than NYC for DL. I know a guy at AA who's halfway up the list as a BOS B737 FO. However, because BOS is such a small and senior base, his COMPANY seniority would let him hold junior narrowbody CA elsewhere. But, he lives right near BOS, enjoys his quality of life decently enough, and doesn't want to give that up, so he just bids BOS B737 FO.

So, where did DL's B717 pilots come from? Answer: from whoever could hold, and wanted to hold that position. For the CAs, maybe it was a B777 FO's first shot at upgrading to CA; maybe it was a junior A320 CA who would enjoy a relative seniority bump, thus allowing a better schedule by going to a more junior type despite slightly lower pay; maybe it was a super senior A320 FO who was staying on the A320 for extra long to become super senior there until he could hold B717 CA as a pretty senior position too. For the FOs, maybe they were newhires; maybe they were B767 FOs from LAX who were based at ATL who were tired of sitting reserve at a base they had to commute to and wanted to hold lines at home; and maybe they were the #1 senior B777 CAs who wanted a change of scenery (but, again, probably not :D )

Hope this helped :spin:
 
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:30 pm

Unlike many others here I found the OP’s question very relevant and something that I would be curious about too. You are not talking about a new order where you can do the bids etc an tne planes come a month separated, you are talking about a bulk transaction where the delivery of ac would be much more frequent hence the not so usual aspect. Thanks to others who took time to respond and explain. May sound cliche but it’s impossible not to miss the old a.net.
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Blockplus
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:17 pm

The US airline system is not a European shell company hiring scheme where you are hired into a fleet and seat at a staffing services co. Everyone that flys Delta metal is on the delta pilots seniority list and is able to bid on fleets and seats system wide.
 
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:21 pm

gokmengs wrote:
Unlike many others here I found the OP’s question very relevant and something that I would be curious about too. You are not talking about a new order where you can do the bids etc an tne planes come a month separated, you are talking about a bulk transaction where the delivery of ac would be much more frequent hence the not so usual aspect. Thanks to others who took time to respond and explain. May sound cliche but it’s impossible not to miss the old a.net.


While it was a bulk transaction on paper, the actual delivery schedule of the 717 was on par with any other aircraft order. Deliveries came in at 2 - 3 per month which allows for a normal training schedule like any other new fleet type.
 
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:36 pm

I would have thought that maybe they recruited some of the 717 pilots from FL when the planes went from WN to DL.
 
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:38 pm

evank516 wrote:
I would have thought that maybe they recruited some of the 717 pilots from FL when the planes went from WN to DL.
I've noticed a lot of FL pilots went to NK, but yes I know a good 20 or so 717 captains from AirTran currently at Delta.
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MO11
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:50 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
An airline introduces a (sort of) new airplane type to its fleet in relatively short order. Obviously DL didn’t have hundreds of 717 type rated pilots sitting around. Did they come from other models or newly hired or what?


A point of fact - DC-9 type rating covers DC-9, MD-80, MD-90, 717.
 
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:50 pm

DL can NOT recruit pilots for a specific fleet. Yes, they could have hired pilots from FL, probably did, but having been trained on the B717 meant nothing IF their junior number (that us, new hire seniority number) didn’t allow them to hold a B717 F/O position or there was no open B717 seat available when they bid. Bidding and seniority are everything. A B777 EK CA with 2,000 hours of command time, as a new DL hire, will bid and be awarded the lowest seat open on his DOH. Probably B717 or Mad Dog.

GF
 
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:10 pm

MO11 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
An airline introduces a (sort of) new airplane type to its fleet in relatively short order. Obviously DL didn’t have hundreds of 717 type rated pilots sitting around. Did they come from other models or newly hired or what?


A point of fact - DC-9 type rating covers DC-9, MD-80, MD-90, 717.


Really? So they share a same or common type rating despite major flight deck differences between them?
 
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:27 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
MO11 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
An airline introduces a (sort of) new airplane type to its fleet in relatively short order. Obviously DL didn’t have hundreds of 717 type rated pilots sitting around. Did they come from other models or newly hired or what?


A point of fact - DC-9 type rating covers DC-9, MD-80, MD-90, 717.


Really? So they share a same or common type rating despite major flight deck differences between them?


No different than a 737-100 having the same type rating as the 737 MAX.
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:54 pm

hOMSaR wrote:
No different than a 737-100 having the same type rating as the 737 MAX.

That is interesting.

In Canada, the 737-100 and -200 are a different type rating than the -300 to -500, which is different from the -600 to -900 and MAX. The only exception is the analog cockpit version of the -300 which is the same type rating as the -100/-200.

But back to the original topic ... the 717 is just another fleet type at Delta. You bid it, you are awarded it, then you are trained. It really doesn't matter where you "came from".
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Alias1024
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:57 pm

The answer to where 717 captains at Delta came from is Delta, except for a few very junior captains now that were hired in the last four years. Most 717 captains were senior narrow body and mid-seniority wide body first officers that took the upgrade. Some came from DC-9 or MD-80 captain spots. A few may have even moved from A320 and 737 captain slots. There's something to be said for the health benefits of rarely going more than one time zone away from your base time.

The answer to where 717 first officers came from is other airlines, military, and a few from corporate flying. New hires. Delta has hired around 4,000 pilots in the last four years, and a significant reason why is to staff the 91 717s they've acquired. While a few first officers bid to the plane from other fleets to be near the top of the seniority list for their bid category, the vast majority of 717 first officers were hired in the last four years, and really probably a majority in the last two. After years of five leg days at the regionals, a lot of pilots want to give Asia and Europe flying a go and bid to the 757/767 category after a couple years. Some bid off the plane because they want to be based in SEA, SLC, or MSP, which do not have 717 bases. Some just want the pay raise, as a third year first officer can make roughly $20,000 a year more on the 757/767 fleet for the same number of hours flown compared to the 717.

BoeingGuy wrote:
MO11 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
An airline introduces a (sort of) new airplane type to its fleet in relatively short order. Obviously DL didn’t have hundreds of 717 type rated pilots sitting around. Did they come from other models or newly hired or what?


A point of fact - DC-9 type rating covers DC-9, MD-80, MD-90, 717.


Really? So they share a same or common type rating despite major flight deck differences between them?


Yes, the 717 is still a DC-9 type rating. A very automated DC-9.
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F27500
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:05 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
When a mommy 717 pilot and a daddy 717 pilot love each other very much...


LMAO .. you win. Best post ever!
 
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:29 pm

My guesses as mentioned before anyone could bid on the 717's:

717 Captains:
DC-9 Captains
MD-88/90 Captain/FO
737 FOs
A319/320FOs
757 FOs (probably not many)

717 FO:
DC-9 FO
MD-88/90 FO
New Hires
Maybe a handful of 737 and Airbus FO's looking to get better trips, knowing they'd be at the top of the 717 FO bid sheet.
 
Passedv1
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:54 pm

FlySail2015 wrote:


Keep in mind, there are also different ways of measuring seniority: within the company as a whole, within one's base, within one's aircraft, within one's seat (CA/FO),


This seems to be a difficult concept for most people that are not US flight crew to get their head around. It seems basic which is why you are getting so many snarky replies.

To clarify, their is only ONE seniority and that is your system seniority. It is like a giant escalator that you get on the bottom the first day you get hired. You get off when you retire, die, get fired, or quit. Within a new hire class their is always a method for determining the order within your class. Numerical by last 4 of social, oldest first, etc. Once you get on this escalator, there is no shuffleing of the order. All of the pilots senior to you will always be senior to you and all of the pilots junior to you will always be junior to you. Note that their is NO consideration for what you have been doing till this point in your career. If you were a Blue Angel an Astronaut or a Beech 1900 Captain, your order on this escalotor is determined the same as everyone else. (Mergers are a whole nother matter)

As explained earlier, every aspect of a line pilots life is based on the order of the pilots on this escalator. For example, Delta management decides there is going to be 20 new 777 CA’s in JFK and 20 new 717 CA’s in LAX...

1st a “bid” is posted. It will outline the positions available and the date it is planned for you to be in the new position. If you want any of the positions you make a computer entry giving a preference order of positions. 1st choice, 2nd choice, etc.

On the date the bid closes, they go to the 1st guy on the escalator and see what he bid for. He gets his first choice...etc. as explained before.

What causes the confusion here on a-net is that it is often presumed that the 20 most senior pilots would take the 20 777 CA positions in the example above. But note that the 777 positions were all in JFK and the 717 positions were in LAX. So it is very possible that the most senior pilot might take 717 in LAX over 777 in JFK and the most junior pilot get 777-JFK.

So when pilots talk about this plane is junior or senior, it is all kind of fuzzy. Bigger planes pay more so tend to be more senior, more desirable bases tend to be more senior, certain positions have relatively better schedules and are thus, more senior. But all of this is what emerges from the bidding process with fuzzy lines that are difficult to measure.

Once the bid is awarded, it is then the training departments job to look at each pilot that was awarded a new position and get them trained for that position. It is only at this point that a pilot is looked at on an individual basis. If a 777 FO is awarded 777 CA then he will have a much shorter training cycle then a pilot who is a 717 Captain and is awarded 777 Captain. The important thing here is that these two got their 777-CA position because nobody senior to them on the escalator wanted it, it did not have anything to do with their previous 777 time or their previous status as a Captain.

As far as monthly schedules and vacations go, it is much the same process. For example, they go to the most senior 717 FO in LAX and he picks the vacation he wants (within contractual rules), they go to the next guy and he picks and so on.

The point of confusion hear is that when we say “seniority on the 717”, it seems to be mistaken for how long we have been on the 717. What it actually means is where the other pilots on the 717 in LAX are on the big escalator relative to me. While my position on the big escalator does not change, my fortunes in a particuar base on a particular equipment can change with every bid. If a pilot that is an FO on the 737 comes to LAX as a Captain on the 717, if he is senior to me on the big escalator, he will be senior to me when he is a 717 Captain. It does not matter that he has 0 hours flying the 717 and I have been flying the 717 for the last 5 years.

Anyway, the main point I have is that all of this bidding stuff is all about seniority and their are no absolutes. Not every 777 pilot is senior to every 717 pilot. Not every Captain is senior to every FO. In fact, sometimes the FO is senior to the Captain operating the exact same flight.

Anyway, hope that helps.
 
MO11
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:49 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
MO11 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
An airline introduces a (sort of) new airplane type to its fleet in relatively short order. Obviously DL didn’t have hundreds of 717 type rated pilots sitting around. Did they come from other models or newly hired or what?


A point of fact - DC-9 type rating covers DC-9, MD-80, MD-90, 717.


Really? So they share a same or common type rating despite major flight deck differences between them?


Yes. Now if you want to fly under FAR 121, you are going to get differences training.....
 
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:02 pm

Passedv1 wrote:
FlySail2015 wrote:


Keep in mind, there are also different ways of measuring seniority: within the company as a whole, within one's base, within one's aircraft, within one's seat (CA/FO),


This seems to be a difficult concept for most people that are not US flight crew to get their head around. It seems basic which is why you are getting so many snarky replies.

To clarify, their is only ONE seniority and that is your system seniority. It is like a giant escalator that you get on the bottom the first day you get hired. You get off when you retire, die, get fired, or quit. Within a new hire class their is always a method for determining the order within your class. Numerical by last 4 of social, oldest first, etc. Once you get on this escalator, there is no shuffleing of the order. All of the pilots senior to you will always be senior to you and all of the pilots junior to you will always be junior to you. Note that their is NO consideration for what you have been doing till this point in your career. If you were a Blue Angel an Astronaut or a Beech 1900 Captain, your order on this escalotor is determined the same as everyone else. (Mergers are a whole nother matter)

As explained earlier, every aspect of a line pilots life is based on the order of the pilots on this escalator. For example, Delta management decides there is going to be 20 new 777 CA’s in JFK and 20 new 717 CA’s in LAX...

1st a “bid” is posted. It will outline the positions available and the date it is planned for you to be in the new position. If you want any of the positions you make a computer entry giving a preference order of positions. 1st choice, 2nd choice, etc.

On the date the bid closes, they go to the 1st guy on the escalator and see what he bid for. He gets his first choice...etc. as explained before.

What causes the confusion here on a-net is that it is often presumed that the 20 most senior pilots would take the 20 777 CA positions in the example above. But note that the 777 positions were all in JFK and the 717 positions were in LAX. So it is very possible that the most senior pilot might take 717 in LAX over 777 in JFK and the most junior pilot get 777-JFK.

So when pilots talk about this plane is junior or senior, it is all kind of fuzzy. Bigger planes pay more so tend to be more senior, more desirable bases tend to be more senior, certain positions have relatively better schedules and are thus, more senior. But all of this is what emerges from the bidding process with fuzzy lines that are difficult to measure.

Once the bid is awarded, it is then the training departments job to look at each pilot that was awarded a new position and get them trained for that position. It is only at this point that a pilot is looked at on an individual basis. If a 777 FO is awarded 777 CA then he will have a much shorter training cycle then a pilot who is a 717 Captain and is awarded 777 Captain. The important thing here is that these two got their 777-CA position because nobody senior to them on the escalator wanted it, it did not have anything to do with their previous 777 time or their previous status as a Captain.

As far as monthly schedules and vacations go, it is much the same process. For example, they go to the most senior 717 FO in LAX and he picks the vacation he wants (within contractual rules), they go to the next guy and he picks and so on.

The point of confusion hear is that when we say “seniority on the 717”, it seems to be mistaken for how long we have been on the 717. What it actually means is where the other pilots on the 717 in LAX are on the big escalator relative to me. While my position on the big escalator does not change, my fortunes in a particuar base on a particular equipment can change with every bid. If a pilot that is an FO on the 737 comes to LAX as a Captain on the 717, if he is senior to me on the big escalator, he will be senior to me when he is a 717 Captain. It does not matter that he has 0 hours flying the 717 and I have been flying the 717 for the last 5 years.

Anyway, the main point I have is that all of this bidding stuff is all about seniority and their are no absolutes. Not every 777 pilot is senior to every 717 pilot. Not every Captain is senior to every FO. In fact, sometimes the FO is senior to the Captain operating the exact same flight.

Anyway, hope that helps.


Same for other positions. Ramp works the same way. Certain work areas (ramp, bagroom, transfer bag runner, etc.) have their own tendencies to go junior or senior, but due to other factors such as wanting a certain shift or a certain day off, a senior guy could take what is a more undesirable shift and thus more junior. For example, on our current shift bid I took a work area that I don't normally like to work, in order to have Sunday and Monday off, which meant I would automatically get Christmas Eve, Christmas, New Year's Eve, and New Year's Day off due to those holidays falling on my days off. I normally pick a more senior work area that I can hold. The work is easier but I'm relatively junior compared to others in that work area so I don't normally get to pick my days off. So by going to a more junior work area for this bid, I was more senior compared to others in the work area and thus could choose days off that were more desireable.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
reggiet
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:04 am

TWA772LR wrote:
When a mommy 717 pilot and a daddy 717 pilot love each other very much...



.....so wrong.... :biggrin:
Reggie in Austin
 
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lightsaber
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:53 am

Passedv1,

Great post. Thank you for taking the time.


F27500 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
When a mommy 717 pilot and a daddy 717 pilot love each other very much...


LMAO .. you win. Best post ever!


I keep coming back to this thread for a that post.

Lightsaber
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
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zeke
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:52 am

hOMSaR wrote:
No different than a 737-100 having the same type rating as the 737 MAX.


The 737-8 and 737-100 share the same TCDS, however under the latest FAA type ratings list (Jan 18, 2018), the 737-8 (which is not the 737-800) is not listed under the 737 type rating.

http://registry.faa.gov/TypeRatings/
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
BravoOne
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:25 pm

I have to assume that that is an omission as the SWA 737 pilots have only done Level A differences training which does not require any simulator, FTD, or classroom training? Basically a handout.
 
BravoOne
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:02 pm

Actually a llittle off topic but regarding the 737-8M, but there is an on going argument between the FAA and Boeing that deals with UPRT, otherwise known as Extended Envelope Training and the FAA is holding the 737-8M as hostage, At this hour there is no FAA approved "Initial" training and thus FAA type rating, training for this airplane and that explains the absence you see on that list.
 
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zeke
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:53 pm

Good info, thank you.

Where are the approved 737-8 sims located ?
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
BravoOne
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:47 pm

zeke wrote:
Good info, thank you.

Where are the approved 737-8 sims located ?


At the respective airlines that have bought the airplane I would imagine and in the case of Boeing they are in MIA, LGW, SNN. I think they have five total. Not sure that any of them are up and certified at this hour. Buying from the low bidder has its consequences.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:42 pm

BravoOne wrote:
Actually a llittle off topic but regarding the 737-8M, but there is an on going argument between the FAA and Boeing that deals with UPRT, otherwise known as Extended Envelope Training and the FAA is holding the 737-8M as hostage, At this hour there is no FAA approved "Initial" training and thus FAA type rating, training for this airplane and that explains the absence you see on that list.


At least in my understanding, Upset Training is a industry-wide “issue”; why is the FAA holding Boeing’s newest plane hostage over it. Or does the FAA apply something special to this new type? And, if WN can do differences training, not very significant at that, why is there a new TCDS pending?


GF
 
BravoOne
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:58 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Actually a llittle off topic but regarding the 737-8M, but there is an on going argument between the FAA and Boeing that deals with UPRT, otherwise known as Extended Envelope Training and the FAA is holding the 737-8M as hostage, At this hour there is no FAA approved "Initial" training and thus FAA type rating, training for this airplane and that explains the absence you see on that list.


At least in my understanding, Upset Training is a industry-wide “issue”; why is the FAA holding Boeing’s newest plane hostage over it. Or does the FAA apply something special to this new type? And, if WN can do differences training, not very significant at that, why is there a new TCDS pending?


GF


You would have to ask the attorneys involved and no there is no new TR proposed for the 737-8M. The who EET is a debacle with both Boeing and Airbus dueling it out with the FAA and EASA. I'm not that close to the subject so I will withhold comments and the real experts, of which there a probabley none on this website work it out.
 
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exFWAOONW
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:26 am

And all this time I thought pilots came directly from God. :cheerful:
Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
 
maddog888
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:18 pm

(Sorry to reopen an older thread but I am just catching up after a spell away) I now understand the seniority /bidding process but as a civilian it still seems strange that no account is taken of the work life outside of the airline. Again as a civilian, when I am half way across the atlantic and something happens I would much rather have that EK captain newly hired to Delta with his 20,000 hours experience at EK flying that type of aircraft to one who got there by many years with airline but not the experience with the type. Is it too complicated to make a system that takes account of real world experience? I suppose the union would be up in arms about that.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: DL 717-200 Pilots... Where did they come from?

Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:44 pm

Not happenin’ maddog888! What do you propose? An adjusted date of hire? The union would NEVER agree as it would be ending an 80 year-old system. Your EK captain will be flying F/O ATL-BHM and a new B777 captain, who could never have been outside the US, will be over the Atlantic. Don’t laugh, I have a friend who went from Super 80 captain who never left the US out of DFW to B777 captain for his last five years.

GF

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