add2718
Topic Author
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Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:33 pm

Recent PHL departure paths

Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:53 pm

Any idea why when PHL is in west flow recently (past 2-3 months), the departure paths have been shifted much farther north so that they go virtually right over land instead of out over the river? Not only that, but frequent use of runway 27R for departures instead of 27L. Both of these combined factors has made living in the area very unpleasant recently. Was looking to see if anyone knew if these changes were permanent or due to something temporary.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Recent PHL departure paths

Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:32 pm

Jet Noise: The Sound of Freedom

GF
 
wagz
Posts: 477
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 12:48 pm

Re: Recent PHL departure paths

Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:46 am

There have been no changes to departures in any way. 27R departures are part of a relatively new operation to land 27L and 17 during southerly winds rather than trying to force landing 35 in a tailwind all the time.
I think Big Foot is blurry... It's not the photographer's fault. There's a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside.
 
add2718
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Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:33 pm

Re: Recent PHL departure paths

Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:40 am

wagz wrote:
27R departures are part of a relatively new operation to land 27L and 17 during southerly winds rather than trying to force landing 35 in a tailwind all the time.


Do you know about how long this operation has been in effect? Trying to determine if I am crazy or not, because I've lived in this area for about 4 years and haven't noticed an increase in the noise until within the past few months.
 
wagz
Posts: 477
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Re: Recent PHL departure paths

Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:54 pm

Its been around since at least last summer, but as I said its only used during southerly/southwesterly winds so its not more than a couple times a week and even then before new year's we hadn't used it very much for a while. Generally we also only try to use it during heavy arrival pushes, not departure pushes (except yesterday). Unless you're in Essington/Tinicum I highly doubt it would cause any appreciable noise increase since 27R departures are only about 1500 feet farther north than a 27R departure. Otherwise departures are treated the same.
I think Big Foot is blurry... It's not the photographer's fault. There's a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside.
 
add2718
Topic Author
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Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:33 pm

Re: Recent PHL departure paths

Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:29 pm

[quote="wagz"its only used during southerly/southwesterly winds[/quote]

Now I'm curious, would this operation be in effect if winds are from between 180 and 270 degrees?
 
wagz
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Re: Recent PHL departure paths

Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:27 pm

Generally speaking yes, but not necessarily. If the wind is light we may not bother. As I said it's generally supposed to be reserved for arrival pushes only as working a lot of departures at 27R is more difficult. Depending on the wind we may land 27R and the Liberty Visual 27L approach.
I think Big Foot is blurry... It's not the photographer's fault. There's a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside.
 
add2718
Topic Author
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:33 pm

Re: Recent PHL departure paths

Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:38 am

wagz wrote:
Unless you're in Essington/Tinicum I highly doubt it would cause any appreciable noise increase since 27R departures are only about 1500 feet farther north than a 27R departure.


Sorry but I am going to have to disagree with this. The difference is pretty substantial in Ridley Park. 1500 feet is over a quarter mile and with jet engines every bit of distance helps. I can imagine it being even worse in Essington since the planes fly directly over there with 27R departures. I think the airport should reconsider this operation or at least turn the 27R departures out over the river after takeoff if possible instead of having them head almost immediately over land. Just my two cents.
 
Woodreau
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Re: Recent PHL departure paths

Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:50 am

add2718 wrote:
Just my two cents.


None of it will do any good here. If you really want to effect change at the PHL airport due to airport noise, you'll need to talk to your local officials and congressmen.

And the airport was mostly likely there first before you moved into the area.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
add2718
Topic Author
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Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:33 pm

Re: Recent PHL departure paths

Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:52 am

Woodreau wrote:
add2718 wrote:
Just my two cents.


None of it will do any good here. If you really want to effect change at the PHL airport due to airport noise, you'll need to talk to your local officials and congressmen.

And the airport was mostly likely there first before you moved into the area.


It certainly was, but until they started this operation I barely noticed it. I'll just move out of the area, thankfully I don't own a house. I'm not naive enough to think that quality of life will win out over profit.
 
wagz
Posts: 477
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 12:48 pm

Re: Recent PHL departure paths

Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:43 pm

add2718 wrote:
wagz wrote:
Unless you're in Essington/Tinicum I highly doubt it would cause any appreciable noise increase since 27R departures are only about 1500 feet farther north than a 27R departure.


Sorry but I am going to have to disagree with this. The difference is pretty substantial in Ridley Park. 1500 feet is over a quarter mile and with jet engines every bit of distance helps. I can imagine it being even worse in Essington since the planes fly directly over there with 27R departures. I think the airport should reconsider this operation or at least turn the 27R departures out over the river after takeoff if possible instead of having them head almost immediately over land. Just my two cents.


The airport has nothing to do with it, this is an ATC procedure. As it stands half of all departures always have and still do turn left over the river. You've only been hearing half the departures off the airport all this time. If all aircraft did that, then departure capacity would be significantly reduced since aircraft are all flying the same heading as opposed to splitting them. As it stands now, this configuration has increased capacity in S/SW winds and is safer than an old configuration that was used previously (and still rarely is in some specific situations). Think about that next time you fly in or out of PHL and want your flight to be on time.

And please stop being so dramatic. I live in South Philly. Any time the airport is on an east configuration I immediately know because I hear A321s and 757s turning and climbing through 2000-2500 ft directly over my head. At night its Fedex and UPS 767s, DC10s, MD11s etc. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. As the previous poster said, if you don't like airplane noise, don't move near an airport. The airport has been in operation in some form since 1925 (according to wikipedia).

And don't expect the departure headings to change. The ones used now (which themselves are occasionally ridiculous) are already legally mandated by some noise impact study done years ago.
I think Big Foot is blurry... It's not the photographer's fault. There's a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside.

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