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LAX772LR
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Potable water ex-CPT?

Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:49 am

So, let's say the water crisis at CPT is anywhere near what the hype would have us believe...

...what are airlines going to do about potable water?
Anyone know any contingency plans?

Image

I'd imagine they'd have it trucked in, but is that cost sustainable/justifiable over time.

Really trying to find some logistical insight into how this would work.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
VSMUT
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Re: Potable water ex-CPT?

Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:35 am

LAX772LR wrote:
So, let's say the water crisis at CPT is anywhere near what the hype would have us believe...

...what are airlines going to do about potable water?
Anyone know any contingency plans?


Just tanker enough water from the home airport for a return flight?

Europe/Asia to Cape Town is a bit longer than some other African destinations, but I seriously doubt that airlines pick up water in most of sub-Saharan Africa due to dubious water quality. Standard policy would be to bring enough water for a return flight.
 
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Faro
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Re: Potable water ex-CPT?

Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:00 am

VSMUT wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
So, let's say the water crisis at CPT is anywhere near what the hype would have us believe...

...what are airlines going to do about potable water?
Anyone know any contingency plans?


Just tanker enough water from the home airport for a return flight?

Europe/Asia to Cape Town is a bit longer than some other African destinations, but I seriously doubt that airlines pick up water in most of sub-Saharan Africa due to dubious water quality. Standard policy would be to bring enough water for a return flight.



Wow...bring enough water for a return flight...I wonder how much that would cost on a long-haul flight to CPT for example?...what would that be, 2-3 metric tons on a 333 for example?...


Faro
The chalice not my son
 
B777LRF
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Re: Potable water ex-CPT?

Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:08 am

Faro wrote:
Wow...bring enough water for a return flight...I wonder how much that would cost on a long-haul flight to CPT for example?...what would that be, 2-3 metric tons on a 333 for example?...

Faro


Hardly. As an example, the 787 has a total capacity of around 1000L, or 1 ton in total weight. I'd imagine an A330 wouldn't be far off those numbers.
From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
 
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BartSimpson
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Re: Potable water ex-CPT?

Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:11 am

VSMUT wrote:

... but I seriously doubt that airlines pick up water in most of sub-Saharan Africa due to dubious water quality. Standard policy would be to bring enough water for a return flight.


I can only speak for Cape Town and Jo'burg - and a few smaller cities - but there is absolutely no reason not to fill water (if there is any...) at their airports. Water quality is just fine.
 
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cv990Coronado
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Re: Potable water ex-CPT?

Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:20 am

The situation is improving and I would imagine aircraft would be given priority, besides the amount involved is minimal in the big picture. So please come and visit we still have water and lots of very good quality wines at reasonable prices.
SSC-707B727 737-741234SP757/762/3/772/WA300/10/319/2/1-342/3/6-880-DAM-VC10 TRD 111 Ju52-DC8/9/10/11-YS11-748-VCV DH4B L
 
VSMUT
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Re: Potable water ex-CPT?

Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:37 am

BartSimpson wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

... but I seriously doubt that airlines pick up water in most of sub-Saharan Africa due to dubious water quality. Standard policy would be to bring enough water for a return flight.


I can only speak for Cape Town and Jo'burg - and a few smaller cities - but there is absolutely no reason not to fill water (if there is any...) at their airports. Water quality is just fine.


For those cities, yes. Granted, I haven't been in Sub Saharan Africa for a while, but the last time I went to places like Mozambique, Tanzania and Zambia the aircraft were the same as today, and the water supplies weren't any good. So there is a precedent for tankering water for a return trip on longer African flights where local water isn't available for whatever reason.
 
shankly
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Re: Potable water ex-CPT?

Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:57 am

BartSimpson wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

... but I seriously doubt that airlines pick up water in most of sub-Saharan Africa due to dubious water quality. Standard policy would be to bring enough water for a return flight.


I can only speak for Cape Town and Jo'burg - and a few smaller cities - but there is absolutely no reason not to fill water (if there is any...) at their airports. Water quality is just fine.


As a resident of the Mother City, agree quality is fine....but it doesn't taste too good!

LAX, it is not hype, there is a genuine issue here which is, at last, being managed with some authority and which has been allowed to succeed thanks to the great co-operation of the residents and businesses of Cape Town.

Also remember, money can't buy you love, but it can buy you water!
L1011 - P F M
 
gabrielchew
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Re: Potable water ex-CPT?

Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:07 am

Most flights headed to Africa from Europe go with the water tanks 100% full. Whilst filling those tanks takes a lot of valuable water, it really is a drop in the ocean (so to speak) of the entire water demand for the city. If everyone is limited to 50L a day (is that right?), and the population is ~ 430,000 (according to Wikipedia), then that is 21.5 million L per day for personal use. Topping up one jumbo with water 1000L is neither here nor there.

A quick look at the CPT departures for today show:
LH to MUC, QR to DOH, DE to FRA, EK to DXB x2, BA to LHR x 2, LX to ZRH....that's only 8 longhuals to fill.
http://my.flightmemory.com/shefgab Upcoming flights: AMS-RIX-BUD-VDA,ETH-TLV-FCO-LHR,STN-TXL-LCY,LTN-CPH-LTN,LGW-SZG,MUC-LHR
 
grjplanes
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Re: Potable water ex-CPT?

Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:21 am

gabrielchew wrote:
Most flights headed to Africa from Europe go with the water tanks 100% full. Whilst filling those tanks takes a lot of valuable water, it really is a drop in the ocean (so to speak) of the entire water demand for the city. If everyone is limited to 50L a day (is that right?), and the population is ~ 430,000 (according to Wikipedia), then that is 21.5 million L per day for personal use. Topping up one jumbo with water 1000L is neither here nor there.

A quick look at the CPT departures for today show:
LH to MUC, QR to DOH, DE to FRA, EK to DXB x2, BA to LHR x 2, LX to ZRH....that's only 8 longhuals to fill.


Really don't work according to Wikipedia...the population of the Metro that is in this situation is roughly 4 million...that number is probably only for the inner city CBD areas (which will actually be last affected if D-Day happens)...currently daily usage for the city is about 500million litres per day (it's not just personal use...), the target is 450million for now to keep pushing back D-Day (which is now for July...so there's success)...even my city with around 200 000 population currently use around 30million litres per day

Longhaul departures this time of year range between 10 and 15 per day...those you mentioned is for today yes, but not all...EK is actually x 3, TK to IST, KL to AMS, AF to CDG, MT to LGW...then there's also ET and DT with widebody aircraft and considering the rest of the smaller regional flights (VFA,GBE,WDH,WVB,MUB) will probably have to rather take water from CPT for their return to CPT due to them going in regions which might not have the best water quality
 
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PHBVF
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Re: Potable water ex-CPT?

Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:26 am

Cape Town has a NOTAM out:

A0237/18 NOTAMR A4056/17
Q) FACA/QFAXX/IV/BO/A/000/999/3358S01836E005
A) FACT B) 1801180921 C) 1804172200 EST
E) AD IS CURRENTLY EXPERIENCING A SERIOUS WATER CRISIS AS A RESULT OF
AN EXTENDED DROUGHT. ALL ROLE PLAYERS ARE TAKING IMMEDIATE MEASURES
TO REDUCE WATER CONSUMPTION, TO ENSURE THAT THE CITY DOES NOT RUN OUT
OF WATER. AS A RESULT, ALL ACFT HAVE TO TANKER WATER INTO FACT AND
ENSURE THAT THE ON BOARD WATER TANKS ARE FILLED AT THE DEP AD.
MINIMAL UPLIFT OF WATER WILL BE ALLOWED OUT OF FACT.
Licensed 777/787 driver
 
gabrielchew
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Re: Potable water ex-CPT?

Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:55 am

grjplanes wrote:
gabrielchew wrote:
Most flights headed to Africa from Europe go with the water tanks 100% full. Whilst filling those tanks takes a lot of valuable water, it really is a drop in the ocean (so to speak) of the entire water demand for the city. If everyone is limited to 50L a day (is that right?), and the population is ~ 430,000 (according to Wikipedia), then that is 21.5 million L per day for personal use. Topping up one jumbo with water 1000L is neither here nor there.

A quick look at the CPT departures for today show:
LH to MUC, QR to DOH, DE to FRA, EK to DXB x2, BA to LHR x 2, LX to ZRH....that's only 8 longhuals to fill.


Really don't work according to Wikipedia...the population of the Metro that is in this situation is roughly 4 million...that number is probably only for the inner city CBD areas (which will actually be last affected if D-Day happens)...currently daily usage for the city is about 500million litres per day (it's not just personal use...), the target is 450million for now to keep pushing back D-Day (which is now for July...so there's success)...even my city with around 200 000 population currently use around 30million litres per day

Longhaul departures this time of year range between 10 and 15 per day...those you mentioned is for today yes, but not all...EK is actually x 3, TK to IST, KL to AMS, AF to CDG, MT to LGW...then there's also ET and DT with widebody aircraft and considering the rest of the smaller regional flights (VFA,GBE,WDH,WVB,MUB) will probably have to rather take water from CPT for their return to CPT due to them going in regions which might not have the best water quality


Well with those figures, my point is even better illustrated, so thank you. 15 or even 50 aircraft needing filling is nothing compared to a daily usage of 450m litres.
http://my.flightmemory.com/shefgab Upcoming flights: AMS-RIX-BUD-VDA,ETH-TLV-FCO-LHR,STN-TXL-LCY,LTN-CPH-LTN,LGW-SZG,MUC-LHR
 
grjplanes
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Re: Potable water ex-CPT?

Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:52 pm

gabrielchew wrote:
grjplanes wrote:
gabrielchew wrote:
Most flights headed to Africa from Europe go with the water tanks 100% full. Whilst filling those tanks takes a lot of valuable water, it really is a drop in the ocean (so to speak) of the entire water demand for the city. If everyone is limited to 50L a day (is that right?), and the population is ~ 430,000 (according to Wikipedia), then that is 21.5 million L per day for personal use. Topping up one jumbo with water 1000L is neither here nor there.

A quick look at the CPT departures for today show:
LH to MUC, QR to DOH, DE to FRA, EK to DXB x2, BA to LHR x 2, LX to ZRH....that's only 8 longhuals to fill.


Really don't work according to Wikipedia...the population of the Metro that is in this situation is roughly 4 million...that number is probably only for the inner city CBD areas (which will actually be last affected if D-Day happens)...currently daily usage for the city is about 500million litres per day (it's not just personal use...), the target is 450million for now to keep pushing back D-Day (which is now for July...so there's success)...even my city with around 200 000 population currently use around 30million litres per day

Longhaul departures this time of year range between 10 and 15 per day...those you mentioned is for today yes, but not all...EK is actually x 3, TK to IST, KL to AMS, AF to CDG, MT to LGW...then there's also ET and DT with widebody aircraft and considering the rest of the smaller regional flights (VFA,GBE,WDH,WVB,MUB) will probably have to rather take water from CPT for their return to CPT due to them going in regions which might not have the best water quality


Well with those figures, my point is even better illustrated, so thank you. 15 or even 50 aircraft needing filling is nothing compared to a daily usage of 450m litres.


Of course it illustrates it better...but that is exactly the problem, the way it got to this point, was individuals and companies etc arguing "what difference would the little extra I use make"...that's why each and every individual and company and industry have to do their collective part...if everybody argues that their extra 1 liter they use won't make a difference, then in the longer run it affects all...so from the airline industry they also had to come up with plans, and this is one of it...another would be to make sure everybody takes that little 250ml bottle of water with them when they disembark at CPT, because collectively it makes a difference.

http://www.traveller24.com/Explore/Gree ... k-20180223
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Potable water ex-CPT?

Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:57 am

gabrielchew wrote:
Most flights headed to Africa from Europe go with the water tanks 100% full. Whilst filling those tanks takes a lot of valuable water, it really is a drop in the ocean (so to speak) of the entire water demand for the city. If everyone is limited to 50L a day (is that right?), and the population is ~ 430,000 (according to Wikipedia), then that is 21.5 million L per day for personal use. Topping up one jumbo with water 1000L is neither here nor there.

A quick look at the CPT departures for today show:
LH to MUC, QR to DOH, DE to FRA, EK to DXB x2, BA to LHR x 2, LX to ZRH....that's only 8 longhuals to fill.

Should probably add ET's CPT-ADD to that, considering that it's longer than some transatlantic routes.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Balerit
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Re: Potable water ex-CPT?

Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:43 pm

Every local citizen going to visit Cape Town, takes water with them. Just had two friends go there for a week or so and they took about thirty 5L bottles with them.
Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (retired).
 
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Balerit
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Re: Potable water ex-CPT?

Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:53 am

Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (retired).
 
aeropix
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Re: Potable water ex-CPT?

Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:17 am

For aircraft it's no problem to tanker. For example on my last transatlantic return flight we can hold 1250Liters of water and used only 375Liters each way. The only things we use the potable water system for is making coffee and flushing toilets. The toilet flush uses only a tiny squirt of water per flush, and the coffee makers only 1-2L per pot. The rest of the consumable water is from bottles carried onboard as part of the catering. I am pretty sure all other international carriers have similar results.

BUT, the elephant in the room is that it takes a lot of water to process human waste, and we must dump the lavatories after such a long flight, so even though every airline can round-trip the water, there is still an impact in CPT airport from the international toilet waste that cannot be returned to origin.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Potable water ex-CPT?

Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:51 am

aeropix wrote:
BUT, the elephant in the room is that it takes a lot of water to process human waste, and we must dump the lavatories after such a long flight, so even though every airline can round-trip the water, there is still an impact in CPT airport from the international toilet waste that cannot be returned to origin.

Have a measurement of how much water that requires?

Have any airports moved to a vac system, or anything of the sort, to conserve?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
aeropix
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Re: Potable water ex-CPT?

Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:35 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
aeropix wrote:
toilet waste that cannot be returned to origin.

Have a measurement of how much water that requires?

Have any airports moved to a vac system, or anything of the sort, to conserve?


1. You'll have to Google it, it is a lot of gallons per gallon processed.
2. It's not a matter of the airport conserving. The waste is sent to the municipality waste treatment plant like all other human waste from the city and is processed there like any other human waste. That is why airliner waste processing is a "hidden" cost to the destination City.

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