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Faro
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Do Stabilised Approach Criteria Differ Among Airlines?

Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:17 am

Do different airlines have different standard operating procedures as to minimum stabilisation height and maximum acceptable deviations from reference approach speeds, G/S angle, rate of descent, etc?


Faro
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Flow2706
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Re: Do Stabilised Approach Criteria Differ Among Airlines?

Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:34 am

In the Airbus, stabilized Approach criteria are defined by Airbus in the FCOM. However airlines can define their own criteria if they desire (and get it approved by the authority), however most stick to the "recommendation" by Airbus. However there are some differences in the minimum height for stabilisation. Most operators have a minimum stabilisation height of 500 AGL in VMC and 1000 AGL in IMC, however a lot of airlines apply more stringent heights (usually 1000AGL both in VMC and IMC, but I've heard that a few Asian operators (I heard Asiana is one of them - not sure if this applies to all fleets but I've heard this from an Asiana A330 pilot) have defined 2000ft as their minimum stabilisation height)
 
BravoOne
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Re: Do Stabilised Approach Criteria Differ Among Airlines?

Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:35 am

I doubt it? Of course there is always the SWA model:)
 
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Faro
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Re: Do Stabilised Approach Criteria Differ Among Airlines?

Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:42 am

Flow2706 wrote:
In the Airbus, stabilized Approach criteria are defined by Airbus in the FCOM. However airlines can define their own criteria if they desire (and get it approved by the authority), however most stick to the "recommendation" by Airbus. However there are some differences in the minimum height for stabilisation. Most operators have a minimum stabilisation height of 500 AGL in VMC and 1000 AGL in IMC, however a lot of airlines apply more stringent heights (usually 1000AGL both in VMC and IMC, but I've heard that a few Asian operators (I heard Asiana is one of them - not sure if this applies to all fleets but I've heard this from an Asiana A330 pilot) have defined 2000ft as their minimum stabilisation height)



Apart from Asiana above, which airlines are known to apply the more stringent criteria?...can airlines set approach criteria below manufacturer FCOM data?...


Faro
The chalice not my son
 
Flow2706
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Re: Do Stabilised Approach Criteria Differ Among Airlines?

Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:55 pm

Faro wrote:
Apart from Asiana above, which airlines are known to apply the more stringent criteria?...can airlines set approach criteria below manufacturer FCOM data?...


Faro

I heard Lufthansa is applying the 1000ft both in VMC and IMC (I think Ryanair is doing the same but I am not 100% sure about Ryanair). The 1000ft in both VMC and IMC is pretty common, the 2000ft is really rare (its really difficult to adhere to the 2000ft due to practical reasons - in Europe at busy airports it is really common to be assigned 160kts till 4nm final (standard clearance in Heathrow and Gatwick) or 170kts till 5nm final (standard in Frankfurt). At 4nm final on aircraft on a standard 3 degree path will be 1200AGL, at 5nm 1500AGL - if the stabilization gate is at 2000ft its obviously not possible to keep up the speed for so long...)
 
thepinkmachine
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Re: Do Stabilised Approach Criteria Differ Among Airlines?

Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:04 pm

I’ve seen some variation between operators, but they are usually in a similar ballpark - ie. 1000 or 1200 ft/min for vs, 10 or 15 kt for speed etc.
 
Woodreau
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Re: Do Stabilised Approach Criteria Differ Among Airlines?

Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:32 pm

Yes. Like everything else in aviation, it depends on the individual operator.
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mmo
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Re: Do Stabilised Approach Criteria Differ Among Airlines?

Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:09 pm

As stated, it depends on the carrier. I was an instructor on the 777/787 for a ME carrier and their criteria was 2000' AGL for stabilization.
Personally, I thought it was extremely conservative, but if that's what they want, then that's what they get.
I think more and more airlines are moving to the same standard for VMC and IMC approaches and it's generally 1000' AGL when
it becomes applicable.
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
N0dak
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Re: Do Stabilised Approach Criteria Differ Among Airlines?

Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:03 pm

My current airline uses 1000' in IMC & 500' in VMC to define a stabilized approach but will be switching to 1000' for all weather conditions. However, a former airline didn't distinguish between IMC & VMC but rather set criteria that must be met at 1000', 500' & 50' to define a stabilized approach.
 
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zeke
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Re: Do Stabilised Approach Criteria Differ Among Airlines?

Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:52 pm

CX uses 1000 ft
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ZBBYLW
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Re: Do Stabilised Approach Criteria Differ Among Airlines?

Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:43 am

My airline uses 500 feet in VMC and IMC to be fully stable. Though we have a 1,000 foot gate where the aircraft has to be fully configured and you have to be confident you will be stable at 500 feet.
Keep the shinny side up!
 
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Faro
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Re: Do Stabilised Approach Criteria Differ Among Airlines?

Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:53 am

And once stabilised, what are typical maximum deviations from reference airspeed, rate of descent and lateral/vertical separation from localiser and G/S before an approach is no longer deemed stabilised?...


Faro
The chalice not my son
 
greg85
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Re: Do Stabilised Approach Criteria Differ Among Airlines?

Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:50 pm

Faro wrote:
And once stabilised, what are typical maximum deviations from reference airspeed, rate of descent and lateral/vertical separation from localiser and G/S before an approach is no longer deemed stabilised?...


Faro


between +10 and -5 kts, 15 deg angle of bank, 3\4 of a dot deviation on the localiser or glideslope. All of these will vary with type and airline, but essentially you need to stay on a reasonable flight path with the speed close to your target.

On top of this you need to allow for transient deviations. Otherwise on very windy\turbulent days you would never be able to land.

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