If smoke was overwhelming in the cabin would it be a wise decision for the captain to descend to say 5,000 feet slow down and open the cabin door?

AFAIK we have no procedure for opening a cabin door in flight.

If you have identified the source, e.g. a toilet, but there is still lots of smoke, once below 10000 feet you'd turn both packs off, equalise cabin pressure and set ram air to on. This will typically clear the smoke. The PM can open his side window if smoke persists in the cockpit.

Type-dependent, etc...

If you are unable to identify the source of the smoke, and you can't stop it, you need to seriously think about ditching.

After accomplishing everything StarlionBlue said to include slowing to 200 KIAS or less and opening both outflow valves to max, there was a procedure in our 747-200s and 747-400s that as last resort open one of the cabin doors (which one depended on where smoke was coming from). By opening, the book said turn the handle to the 12 o'clock position after de-arming. Once the smoke cleared, the flight attendant was supposed to close the door. I never heard of anyone that ever got to that part of the procedure.

RetiredWeasel wrote:

After accomplishing everything StarlionBlue said to include slowing to 200 KIAS or less and opening both outflow valves to max, there was a procedure in our 747-200s and 747-400s that as last resort open one of the cabin doors (which one depended on where smoke was coming from). By opening, the book said turn the handle to the 12 o'clock position after de-arming. Once the smoke cleared, the flight attendant was supposed to close the door. I never heard of anyone that ever got to that part of the procedure.

Closing the door? Wow. Yeah, that does seems a bit unnecessary given the circumstances.

It also sounds like one of those "point at the most junior crew member" situations.

Hi: From Real Life. B757, smoke in cabin while descending to land. All Toilets’ Smoke detectors were activated. (Signaling, smoke is real), plus, incoming cre (cabin) told us about specific olor and cabin turned “smoky”“down
On ground, a/c was declared AOG, till “ smoking gun” would be found.
MCC: don’t worry, A/c will have a “Big Check tomorrow. Just check and, is nothing found, sent to us.”
MCC Position was disregarded as unlawful.
At the end, found that, in FWD cargo compartment, behind Center FTank, a Slat’s Drive bar Junction, what’s bad wired, living a wire protruding some 1 1/2 inch and thus tearing itemp I solation blankets, made from fiber glass. In this zone there are a recirculating fans that caught this “smoke” and distributed trough a/c cabin.

Reading old FAA’s directives is not a bad practice. Back in 2005- 2010, there were many incidents with smoke. FAA issue a Directive about how to dealt with it, with very clear indications about “smoking guns” and the unacceptable, in this cases: “Checked, NO FAULT FOUND”

Rgds

Sorry, too late:
Please read
a) incoming CREW (cabin)
b) Slat Junction Bar WAS INCORRECTLY WIRED

Rgds

Hi: tired but a short “GOOGLE” on cabin smoke:

1. On of the “hits”: https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/med ... .795-4.pdf

fsxflyer21 wrote:

If smoke was overwhelming in the cabin would it be a wise decision for the captain to descend to say 5,000 feet slow down and open the cabin door?

On which type......Are you serious

You would think that opening a door would just increase the air flow and feed any fire. Didn’t that happen in the case of Ricky Nelson’s DC 3. The two pilots opened their DV windows to help clear the smoke from the cockpit but it actually increased the fire.

The 747 has a procedure for cracking open doors 2 and 5 IIRC in case of severe smoke in the cabin that cannot be cleared by any other mean.

I believe it sits at the end of the SMOKE/FUMES checklist and is to be used at the captain's discretion shall nothing else work and if an immediate landing cannot be performed. It's more of a last ditch attempt and I don't think it's ever been used in anger. There are a couple of straps that the cabin crew would use to tie to the door handle to prevent it from opening further.

The fun thing is that it is in the book, so it must have been tested and certified... must have been fun.

fsxflyer21 wrote:

If smoke was overwhelming in the cabin would it be a wise decision for the captain to descend to say 5,000 feet slow down and open the cabin door?

Simple answer: no.

The aircraft door cannot be opened in flight in most aircraft. If a fire is onboard, opening a door can rapidly make it worse, and may drastically alter fire behavior.

The first priority with smoke is to don oxygen masks, and after that it depends on the aircraft and the situation. In many cases it is advantageous to remain at altitude, and while fire suppression is available in some, but not all cargo spaces, a cabin fire has only hand extinguishers, and usually precludes their use if the fire is behind interior panels. A depressurization in certain cases may be appropriate. A descent must take into account the distance to the intended alternate or forced landing site, terrain below, fuel on board, etc.

I was perusing Chap. 5 of the B747-8 AMM for some light reading and cam across a Conditional Inspection entitled:

"PROCEDURES REQUIRING MAIN ENTRY DOOR OR DOORS BE OPENED DURING FLIGHT"

The first sentence in the procedure is:

The inspections in this procedure must be performed following a flight where the flight crew implemented a procedure requiring a main entry door or doors be secured in a partially open state during unpressurized flight.

So Boeing has envisioned a scenario where the flight crew may have to open a door in flight. For the record, I went through our QRH and the procedures referenced in the AMM (“PACK 1+2+3” and “Smoke or Fumes Removal”) and could not find where the crew is instructed or advised to open a door.

When I get a chance, I'm going to go out to one of our -8's and see if the fittings are installed in the door and door frame that were installed on the classics. These fittings allowed the installation of a strap that kept the door from opening too far. That must have been fun to install.

I was a captain on the 747, and we had zero procedures for opening a door in flight. In the older Classics, a smoke port existed in the upper deck, but that was it.

Starlionblue wrote:

RetiredWeasel wrote:

After accomplishing everything StarlionBlue said to include slowing to 200 KIAS or less and opening both outflow valves to max, there was a procedure in our 747-200s and 747-400s that as last resort open one of the cabin doors (which one depended on where smoke was coming from). By opening, the book said turn the handle to the 12 o'clock position after de-arming. Once the smoke cleared, the flight attendant was supposed to close the door. I never heard of anyone that ever got to that part of the procedure.

Closing the door? Wow. Yeah, that does seems a bit unnecessary given the circumstances.

It also sounds like one of those "point at the most junior crew member" situations.

IIRC, the 747 is the only Boeing model on which the Smoke or Fumes Removal checklist says to open a door. All Boeing model checklists tell you to do the Smoke, Fire, or Fumes checklist first unless the Smoke itself is the biggest threat. In other words, try to stop the source of the Smoke first before you try to get rid of it.

747Whale wrote:

I was a captain on the 747, and we had zero procedures for opening a door in flight. In the older Classics, a smoke port existed in the upper deck, but that was it.

I believe the 747-8 is the first 747 that totally eliminates the smoke vent. The vent on the Classic is where the peroxcopic sextant would have gone had the early Carousel inertial nav not worked out. Pan Am actually was not 100% confident of this being in place and ready for service when the first aircraft were delivered.

The -400's definitely had them. The vent is opened by a T-handle on the overhead panel IIRC. I guess the airlines got tired of the crews using the sextant mount for flashlight battery disposal. Especially on the 727

BravoOne wrote:

I believe the 747-8 is the first 747 that totally eliminates the smoke vent. The vent on the Classic is where the peroxcopic sextant would have gone had the early Carousel inertial nav not worked out. Pan Am actually was not 100% confident of this being in place and ready for service when the first aircraft were delivered.

Pan am was right to lack confidence in the Carousel. An abacus had more capability.

As for opening a door in flight, it was found nowhere in any of our manuals, and was not a part of any procedure we had.