cmsgop
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri May 26, 2000 7:09 am

(SNA)Orange County

Fri May 26, 2000 7:18 am

Now this is one of those FAA type airports where you climb to 1000'ft and throttle back to reduce the noise,But coming back from my wedding going home to Seattle we did something different,we climbed to 1000' and made a hard left going over back bay is this something new?...Thanks
 
AAR90
Posts: 3140
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 11:51 am

RE: (SNA)Orange County

Fri May 26, 2000 11:34 am

Not "new" but unusual. ATC can instruct deviation to published departures and sometimes will especially to avoid traffic they are not communicating with.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
cmsgop
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri May 26, 2000 7:09 am

RE: (SNA)Orange County

Fri May 26, 2000 11:39 am

Thank You!!!!!....I kind of liked it from the norm!..BTW it was an American Airlines Flight AAR90..:*)
 
AAR90
Posts: 3140
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 11:51 am

RE: (SNA)Orange County

Fri May 26, 2000 11:58 am

Not me.  
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
SJC-Alien
Posts: 870
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 1999 1:15 pm

RE: (SNA)Orange County

Fri May 26, 2000 10:17 pm

Ha Ha Ha..
good one liner.....
 
cmsgop
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri May 26, 2000 7:09 am

RE: (SNA)Orange County

Sat May 27, 2000 5:17 am

Is it true that Flight Crews hate this kind of T.O.?
 
AAR90
Posts: 3140
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 11:51 am

RE: (SNA)Orange County

Sat May 27, 2000 8:58 am

>Is it true that Flight Crews hate this kind of T.O.?

What "kind of T.O." are you refering to? SNA departures are in many ways the easiest takeoff/departures I've flown.

*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
cmsgop
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri May 26, 2000 7:09 am

RE: (SNA)Orange County

Sat May 27, 2000 10:06 am

What "kind of T.O." are you refering to? SNA departures are in many ways the easiest takeoff/departures I've flown. ...............I have seen shows because Regan National and Orange County have the same T.O. FULL BRAKES,ENGINES FULL THROTTLE,CLIMB TO 1000',THROTTLE BACK, LEVEL AND THEN CLIMB TO 10,000'....some flight crews seem to think this can be dangerous,just to reduce the noise level!
 
AAR90
Posts: 3140
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 11:51 am

RE: (SNA)Orange County

Sat May 27, 2000 12:04 pm

>I have seen shows because Regan National and Orange County have the same
>T.O. FULL BRAKES,ENGINES FULL THROTTLE,CLIMB TO 1000',THROTTLE BACK,
>LEVEL AND THEN CLIMB TO 10,000'....

SNA southbound departures are very simple and therefore very easy to perform:
1. line-up on runway.
2. hold brakes.
3. spool engines to mid-range power
(so they don't spool up unevenly for directional control)
4. release brakes.
5. apply takeoff power.
6. rotate as normal.
7. maintain initial climb speed to 800 feet.
8. set reduced power (noise abatement climb).
9. WAIT-you do nothing else but fly an airspeed and direction until above 3,000 feet (raise flaps) and 5 miles (add power if desired) from airport.

Numbers 1-6 are done at any airport. The order may change slightly depending on if you are doing a "rolling takeoff" or not.
Number 7 is only slightly different than AA standard procedure of maintaining initial climb speed to 1,000 feet AGL (600' used to be SOP until a couple of years ago).
Number 8 is different only in the power setting used. SNA departures use significantly less power than a "normal" departure, but the actions in the cockpit are the same.
Number 9 is where the differences are. In a "normal" departure power reduction, configuration changes and heading changes occur nearly simultaneously. In an SNA departure these are all spread out by a significant amount. Set the power and WAIT for 1 mile point (5-10 seconds); change heading 19 degrees left and WAIT
for 3,000' (40-60 seconds); raise flaps/slats and WAIT for 5 mile point (20-30 seconds); set climb power (if desired).

On the B757 you command the pilot not flying to do two things: "VNAV" (at 800') and "LNAV" (at 1 mile). On the MD90 you command the pilot not flying to do two things: "EPR Select" (at 800') and "NAV" (at 1 mile). All very simple and so spread out time-wise it is that much easier to do correctly.  

>some flight crews seem to think this can be dangerous,just to reduce the noise level!

I've watched crews brief SNA departures for more than 30 minutes! Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill!   As to being dangerous, it is less dangerous than "normal" departure since everything is spread out time-wise and IF anything goes wrong, you disregard the noise procedures entirely. i.e. if an engine fails during takeoff and I continue takeoff, I will climb straight ahead to 650'AGL, level off, raise flaps, then continue climb all while maintaining max power! 650' at max power over the noise monitors is gonna bust the limits big time.   But heck, there are no obstructions and LGB is an easy right turn to land.  

That's not to say SNA departures do not require precision flying to maintain below prescribed noise limits, they do. But they are neither dangerous nor difficult. Sadly, they do "read" in the Jepp pages 100 times worse than they "feel" in the aircraft and that has a lot of pilots very concerned about "safety."  

FWIW, all my SNA takeoffs last week were rolling takeoffs. Much more "kick-in-the-pants" than holding the brakes while increasing power. At least on the MD90.   Opposite is true for B757.  

*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
cmsgop
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri May 26, 2000 7:09 am

RE: (SNA)Orange County

Sun May 28, 2000 1:01 am

Thank You AAR90,that was very nice of you to respond in detail,very informative!!!
 
KALB
Posts: 564
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2000 12:33 pm

RE: (SNA)Orange County

Thu Jun 01, 2000 10:39 am

I can't wait to fly in and out of SNA. Maybe I should try it on my FS2000 with the 737-400.
 
cmsgop
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri May 26, 2000 7:09 am

RE: (SNA)Orange County

Thu Jun 01, 2000 1:01 pm

I wish they made it for MAC..kalb,or do they, its been so long since I have checked.
 
KALB
Posts: 564
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2000 12:33 pm

RE: (SNA)Orange County(Cmsgop)

Fri Jun 09, 2000 4:36 am

I don't think there is a MAC version of FS2000.

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