Tarantine
Topic Author
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Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2000 12:53 pm

JT3D Question

Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:04 pm

I was wondering where airlines like Airborne Express, Emery Worldwide (and even the USAF for the B-52H) get parts for the JT3D turbofan engine. I know that Pratt & Whitney no longer makes the engines, but do the still make parts for them or are they all salvaged from retired jets? Also, do the JT3D's on the air freight airlines like Airborne meet stage 3 noise regulations?
Thanks..
 
JETPILOT
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RE: JT3D Question

Fri Sep 22, 2000 5:09 pm

The JT3D only meets stage III requirments in the long duct nacelle as seen on the DC8 62/63 series.

The short duct nacelle on the 50/61 series can be modified with a hushkit that will allow it to meet stage III requirments.



 
Guest

RE: JT3D Question

Fri Sep 22, 2000 5:19 pm

I don't for sure but I would say that parts are still available either from PW or some other source. There are still many JT3-D's in service both in military and civilian aviation. The USAF Reserve and Guard units still use KC-135E's which have JT3-D's (TF-33) and of course AWACS have them as well. Let's also not forget the C-141 which has the long ducted TF-33's mentioned before. There are also many other aircraft in the military that use engines that are out of production such as the C-5 (GE TF-39), and some F-15C's which still have PW F-100-PW100's.
 
FLY DC JETS
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RE: JT3D Question-PW Still Makes Parts

Sat Sep 23, 2000 8:59 am

PW still makes parts for these engines. There are about 500 planes flying that still have JT3D (TF-33) powerplants. The demand is still lucrative enough for PW to continue making parts. Engine manufacturers make their money off of spare parts, so as long as the plane is flying, PW will make parts for it.

PW is also trying to sell several governments and airlines on a re-engining program that replaces the JT3D's with JT8D-200s.
 
Tarantine
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RE: JT3D Question-PW Still Makes Parts

Sat Sep 23, 2000 10:28 am

The JT8D-200 series makes sense. They are about the same size & weight, make similar power output and are quieter & produce less emissions. Thanks. Dc jets
 
Guest

RE: JT3D Question

Sat Sep 23, 2000 10:39 am

I have read about the re-engining program involving the JT8-D. It seems that CFM56 has been more successful at replacing the JT3-D/TF-33. By the way Tarantine, I know you have seen us use the term TF-33. TF-33 is the U.S. military designation for the JT3-D. Please understand that TF-33 and JT3-D are the same engine. Many military jet engines are the same as their commercial counterparts but are given a military designation just like every other item bought by the military. Anyway, back to the subject at hand. It seems to me that the CFM56 is a more popular sale because they are so much quieter and more efficient than JT8-D's. If you see a KC-135R or a re-engined DC-8 which both have CFM56's you will see exactly what I mean. Unless it is totally quiet on the ramp, you are not likely to hear the jets when they take off. And you certainly can't hear them at idle unless you are really close to them. In fact, the KC-135R's that I have been around were so quiet at idle that the only things you really heard were the bleed air and ECS systems. And you still had to be really close to hear that. JT8-D's are quite loud with a really high pitch idle and this can be a turn off to customers who are looking to re-engine older jets.
 
FLY DC JETS
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RE: JT3D Question-Tn283

Sun Sep 24, 2000 5:14 am

"It seems to me that the CFM56 is a more popular sale because
they are so much quieter and more efficient than JT8-D's. If you see a
KC-135R or a re-engined DC-8 which both have CFM56's you will see exactly what I mean."

PW never bid on the KC-135 contract, nor did they bid on the Super 71 conversion. CFM won by default. PW had a difficult enough time building the JT8D-200 for the influx of MD-80 orders, they had no ability nor the foresight to see this market.

In fact the PW JT3D to JT8D re-engining program didn't officially begin until 1996. So there was no competition between CFM and PW, CFM won as the only bidder. PW hasn't really offered this program to many customers yet, however it is in the running for a USAF contract to re-engine JSTARS aircraft due to ground clearance problems w/ the CFM. Additionally, it is still possible that PW with the JT8D, could win another contract to re-engine some AF reserve and Air National Guard aircraft. All of these proposals combined with the other airlines and governments that could use new engines make it very likely that PW will at least have some customers.

" JT8-D's are quite loud with a really high pitch idle
and this can be a turn off to customers who are looking to re-engine
older jets. "
The JT8D-200 is Stage III compliant without a hushkit, as is the CFM-56. I think you are confusing the classic, straight-8 engines with the newer -200s, which are much, much quieter.

Though the some CFM56 models are quieter than the JT8D, and all are more efficent, it doesn't matter because PW until 1996 chose to stay out of this market. PW's advantage here is price, PW is able to price JT8D-200's at a much lower purchase price than CFM's. For many of the struggling airlines and governments that are looking to re-engine, purchase price is the most important. Though your facts are correct, your speaking points about why the CFM is more popular cannot be applied.
 
Guest

RE: JT3D Question

Sun Sep 24, 2000 11:05 am

Thanks for the added info on that, DC. I was not aware PW was out of the picture til '96. Maybe the KC-135's in the USANG will re-engine using the JT8-D 200's. I am certainly not against it.
 
L-188
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RE: JT3D Question

Sun Sep 24, 2000 4:44 pm

I do recall seeing a Emery DC-8 Sixty series on the ramp here in Anchorage 1994 when I was working for Alaska Airlines. It was wearing Jt-8D engines not JT-3's or CFM-56.

It is also the only one that I can recall seeing that had that conversion. The nightly Emery flight just landed here 15 minutes ago and that aircraft was wearing the old engines.
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