widebody
Posts: 1107
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2000 5:08 pm

A320/737-type Aircraft Stall Recovery

Mon Mar 19, 2001 9:59 am

For an A320/737 sized aircraft, how much height does it take to recover a stall? What about A340/777?

Rgds....
 
OldMan
Posts: 207
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:38 am

RE: A320/737-type Aircraft Stall Recovery

Mon Mar 19, 2001 10:35 am

Good Question, Who knows? not me! We only do approach to stalls and recover on the first indication.. Keep the tail behind you.
 
Pilot1113
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Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:42 pm

RE: A320/737-type Aircraft Stall Recovery

Mon Mar 19, 2001 12:25 pm

I think it's about 5,000 feet of altitude or more. I know that an Airborne Express DC-8 crashed after a stall demonstration.

In the modern airliners, you really have to push the nose down while increasing the power. In addition the jet engine has about a 10 second spool up time, so you have to factor that in there. While you're diving towards the ground to build up airspeed you're waiting 10 seconds for that engine to spool up. This alone should be cause for a good amount of altitude loss.

- Neil Harrison
 
OldMan
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Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:38 am

RE: A320/737-type Aircraft Stall Recovery

Mon Mar 19, 2001 11:57 pm

Doing approach to stalls in a large jet are not the same as a light aircraft. First of all we never reduce the power to the point that the engine is un-spooled and there for do not have to wait for it to accelerate. We get configured and maintain altitude while speed bleeds off. Still holding altitude and very slowly increasing a little pitch untill the first sign of buffet while still at altitude then recover. Normally you can do this and not loose more that 100 feet or so. Also with the very clean wing of a modern jet, if the nose goes down you will not have to "wait" for the speed to build. It will be there and beyond in a heart beat. This works for Dc-9 Bac1-11 B732 B733 B734 B752 B767 and most others. Keep the tail behind you  Smile
 
Pilot1113
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Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:42 pm

RE: A320/737-type Aircraft Stall Recovery

Tue Mar 20, 2001 7:20 am

A video tape was shown in one of my aviation classes that showed an MD-11 going through flight testing. They showed both external and internal cockpit views.

One of the things they showed was a full stall. To recover it seemed like they really had to apply full pressure to break the stall.

I also thought that the swept back wings of modern aircraft play into this somehow and thus create the need for more altitude and slower recovery.

Of course, I have been wrong before...

- Neil Harrison
 
OldMan
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Pilot 1113

Tue Mar 20, 2001 9:35 am

You are correct in what you say and what you saw. Like I said before, operators of large aircraft to not get into full stall, during flight testing is a different can of worms. Pilots are judged on their ability to recognize low speed buffet, also what do you suspect high speed buffet would feel like? (This is not a test)  Smile
 
widebody
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RE: A320/737-type Aircraft Stall Recovery

Tue Mar 20, 2001 10:27 am

I'm specifically wondering about an accident like the Thai one, I think it was an A310 on the 3rd go around......what would he have needed to recover from a full stall, or is the only answer 'the ground'......

Rgds..
 
OldMan
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RE: A320/737-type Aircraft Stall Recovery

Tue Mar 20, 2001 10:46 am

Not qualified to comment on the A310. Sorry
 
widebody
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RE: A320/737-type Aircraft Stall Recovery

Tue Mar 20, 2001 11:06 am

Not specifically A310 Oldman, any aircraft, just using Thai as an example..if I were to let a stall develop, and lost airflow, am I screwed either way?

Thanks for the info so far,

Rgds,
Dave....
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: A320/737-type Aircraft Stall Recovery

Tue Mar 20, 2001 7:49 pm

A Singapore Airlines 747 stalled while cruising over Turkey en route from Singapore to Northern Europe. They lost about 1,700 feet. Bizarrely (considering how unusual it is to even get a stall warning, let alone a stall), SQ stalled another 747 climbing out of Vienna, and the aircraft apparently descended 800 feet. That SQ have only had three crashes (Taipei, Silkair and an A310 lost with all aboard during a training mission in Borneo) is a miracle.

Aerolineas Argentinas stalled a 707 climbing out of NY and although I don't know where they were when the sequence started, they swooped towards houses in Queens and missed the ground by about 200 feet. An engine spat out a load of flames (compressor stall) and the passengers were by all accounts losing it big time. None-the-less they continued the flight to South America.

Two very classy airlines. Not.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
chdmcmanus
Posts: 372
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 12:53 am

RE: A320/737-type Aircraft Stall Recovery

Wed Mar 21, 2001 4:48 am

Another factor not previosly mentioned here is the unsuing roll after a stall. If lateral control is not maintained throughout a full stall, a severe rolling action may ensue rendering a loss of control as the ailerons become ineffective. The other factor is acft configuration, with gear and flaps down, not only does stall speed change, but control and recovery carachteristics as well. When I was being trained, I was taught to listen for the "elephants on the wings", in large acft a stall warning will be encontered on an encroaching stall, followed by a banging noise as the airflow buffets against the wings. I have only ever heard one legitamate stall warning, caused by a sever tailwind shear, we recovered normally and landed uneventfully, and when I made some additional S&G calculations on the ground, I found we were still a good 10 knots above Vstall!
"Never trust a clean Crew Chief"
 
tito
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 1:39 pm

RE: A320/737-type Aircraft Stall Recovery

Tue Mar 27, 2001 2:46 pm

In the CV-580 we lowered the nose during recoveries much like in a light airplane, and we would less than 500 feet in a full flap stall and about 100 feet in a zero flap stall. This was a difficult habit for me to overcome during sim training on the BAe-146 where we maintained a constant pitch attitude and powered out of the stall (actually just an imminent stall). If you dropped the nose at all you would lose altitude in a big hurry (and like Oldman said the airspeed increases VERY fast). So if we demonstrated it properly we would lose less than 100 feet. The 146 also has a "stick pusher" and if you are too aggressive during the approach to stall or recovery you would activate it and you had better have alot of altitude to play with. All of the stall protections (stick shaker and pusher) are activated by angle-of-attack so even in the simulator you would never actually get a full stall (the pusher would activate before that could happen).

 
XXXX10
Posts: 702
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RE: A320/737-type Aircraft Stall Recovery

Tue Mar 27, 2001 7:33 pm

I didn't think you could stall an A320
 
JG
Posts: 165
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RE: Xxxx10

Wed Mar 28, 2001 8:01 am

xxxx10,

Can't stall a 320 without degrading it.... and I don't mean comparing it to Boeing.  Smile (Sorry, could not resist)

Just kidding everyone... don't get started.

You have to turn off a couple of flight control computers and force it to behave badly.

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