Bryan Becker
Topic Author
Posts: 327
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2001 12:38 pm

Standard Climb!

Tue Apr 10, 2001 10:05 am

This is from my other post "can some one help me".I was wondering if some one could tell me what the standard clomb rate is for the following planes,and if you just you just know a few just post them and someone else will do the rest or all.An I know that it depends on the temp of that day and many other things,so please do not say that Smile.....................

737(family)>

757>

747>

777>

717>

319>

320>


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Guest

RE: Standard Climb!

Tue Apr 10, 2001 10:41 am

Add the 767 to that, I think it's 7,000ft per minuite for standard. I could be completely off though.
-Tom
 
Guest

RE: Standard Climb!

Tue Apr 10, 2001 12:49 pm

Brian...
There's really no such thing as a standard climb rate. It's a function of many variables. Weight, outside air temperature, etc.
 
Bryan Becker
Topic Author
Posts: 327
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2001 12:38 pm

RE: Standard Climb!

Tue Apr 10, 2001 1:37 pm

I mean what is the maximum climb that the A/c can do,An then why does it say on the charts:standard climb with a minimum of 350ft per NM,what does the standard part mean? Smile



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IndianGuy
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RE: King767

Tue Apr 10, 2001 5:58 pm

The figure u have quoted is the MAX climb rate, which depends again on the Weight and other factors such as temperature etc which affect the pitch and engine thrust settings, which in turn have an effect on the actual climb rates.

Std climb rates should be around 3000 fpm for initial climb and terrain clearance, settling down to around 2000-2500 fpm. Older planes like 747-200's required a "step-climb", whree they climb to around 29000 feet @1500 fpm, and an even more leisurely climb after that.

This is from what i have heard from pilot friends.
 
flight152
Posts: 3211
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RE: Standard Climb!

Wed Apr 11, 2001 12:46 am

Bryan The Max. climb rate and the standard climb rate are two totally different things.
 
flight152
Posts: 3211
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RE: Standard Climb!

Wed Apr 11, 2001 1:09 am

Bryan- You really need to recheck your spelling and grammer before you post a topic, I can see a few errors.... but this!
 
Guest

RE: Standard Climb!

Wed Apr 11, 2001 4:07 am

Ok thanks IndianGuy.
-Tom
 
futureatp
Posts: 190
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2000 3:07 pm

Isnt It Ias?

Wed Apr 11, 2001 9:57 am

Please correct me if I am wrong. But dont they just set the engines in climb setting (example 88% n1) and pitch for a sertain airspeed? Seems much more pratical to do that instead of throwing in 1800 ft per min. However that is how I do it on MSFlightsim. But in real life I set power and pitch for a certain airspeed as suggested in the operating hand book for the ac I am flying. It should be noted that I fly 172s and Bonanzas and not 757s or a320s
John
 
Guest

RE: Standard Climb!

Wed Apr 11, 2001 11:53 pm

You're correct, normally you set climb power and fly the appropriate speed profile - you take what you get as far as climb rate.
 
Joona
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RE: Standard Climb!

Sun Apr 15, 2001 1:48 am

Indianguy:

Step Climb is still used on many aircraft, not just the 744. A340, MD-11, B747, B757/B767, you name it.

Joona
1740 days idle. Beat that.
 
Bryan Becker
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RE: Standard Climb!

Sun Apr 15, 2001 1:51 am

Whats a step climb?


-BryanBecker Big thumbs up
 
Joona
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RE: Standard Climb!

Sun Apr 15, 2001 9:55 am

If you're, for example, fully loaded with pasengers and cargo and fuel, you can't climb to FL390, for example, immediately. Instead, you initially climb to FL290, and after burning enough fuel, climb to FL310, burn enough fuel again, climb FL330 etc. all the way up to FL390.

Basically you climb in steps, thus calling it Step Climb.

Hope you understood  Smile

Joona
1740 days idle. Beat that.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Standard Climb!

Sun Apr 15, 2001 10:44 am

>>>I mean what is the maximum climb that the A/c can do, and then why does it say on the charts: standard climb with a minimum of 350ft per NM,what does the standard part mean?

Brian,

I've looked over the messages and it appears that the word "standard" is being taken out of context here. What's being communicated here is not "standard" climb rates, but rather, the weather required for IFR takeoff minimums. From page XV of the current DOD "flip"...

"Civil Users: FAR 91 prescribes standard takeoff rules and establishes takeoff minimums for certain operators a follows: (1) Aircraft having 2 engines or less- one staute mile; (2) Aircraft having more than 2 engines- one-half statute mile. These standard minima apply in the absence of any different minima listed below." Folling this, each airports is listed, along with what the takeoff minimums for that airport are. (With Jeppesen, all this stuff isn't centralized, and an airport's takeoff minimums are more conveniently located on an airport's 10-9/10-9A page).

Your quote above wasn't quite complete, so I'll pick a complete example, say, for Abilene Reginal Airport. For runway 17L, it requires 1200-2 (a 1,200' ceiling and 2 miles visibility), and is also annotated "or standard with minimum climb of 270/NM to 3200." Most simply stated, that means if your particular aircraft is capable of, and can achieve (as loaded) a climb rate that will attain a minimum of 270 feet for every nautical mile traveled, and further, that you can maintain this rate of climb until you reach 3,200 feet, *you* can use the "standard" takeoff minimums of either (visibility as low as) 1 mile, or 1/2 mile, depending upon how many engines your bird has. If your aircraft can't do that rate of climb, you're stuck on the ground at ABI until the visibility makes it to 2 miles.


As far as climb (and descent) rates for various types of aircraft, here is what ATC expects, and they're expressed in FPM...

http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Appendices/atcapda.html
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Bryan Becker
Topic Author
Posts: 327
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2001 12:38 pm

RE: Standard Climb!

Mon Apr 16, 2001 12:40 am

All aircraft have a maximum climb that the aircraft can handle.the maximum the aircraft was built to do Smile


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OPNLguy
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RE: Standard Climb!

Mon Apr 16, 2001 2:31 am

>>>All aircraft have a maximum climb that the aircraft can handle.the maximum the aircraft was built to do..

Well, yeah, but it somthing of a nebulous/moot point. Any similarity to this rate (determined in flight test) and the rates achieved in every-day operations are often purely coincidental. (Your milage may vary, and objects in the mirror are larger than they appear...)  Big grin

Back to one of your previous quotes/questions...
>>>I mean what is the maximum climb that the A/c can do,An then why does it say on the charts: standard climb with a minimum of 350ft per NM,what does the standard part mean?

I'm going to take a stab at this and presume you're familiar with your local Falcon Field there at Mesa. Before you go any further, head on over to Jeppesen's site at: http://www.jeppesen.com/onlinepubs/aptrelease.phtml, click "Accept" and then scroll/click on FFZ. A .PDF file of the FFZ airport will appear, and can be printed off for reference.

If you're still with me at this point, look towards the bottom where it says "Takeoff and IFR departure procedure" and specifically, at runways 4L and 4R.

Jeppesen always lists minimums from best-to-worst when reading left-to-right. Thus, 2700-3 applies to every one. Moving towards the left, if you can meet the 350'/NM minimum climb rate to 4,100', *you* can use the "standard" takeoff minimum visibility of either 1 mile, or 1/2 mile, depending upon how many engines you have. That ability to takeoff with as low as 1/4 mile visibility is not applicable to everyone, and must be approved in an airlines Ops Specs.

So...
What appears to have been missing from your previous "standard climb with a minimum of 350ft per NM" excerpt was something more like: "Runway 4L/4R takeoff mins 2700-3 or standard with min climb 350'/NM to 4100'"

Clear now? In aviation, context can be crucial..  Big grin



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Buff
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RE: Standard Climb!

Mon Apr 16, 2001 8:08 am

Just to focus on one small point made earlier: one should never set vertical speed to regulate climb performance on any aircraft.

For any given vertical speed command with a constant power setting, as the aircraft climbs the indicated airspeed will decrease. Many pilots have had a rude awakening as the stick shaker goes off while climbing to altitude. Or worse where there is no stick shaker, a stall.

The question about climb rates after takeoff are minimum climb rates that must be sustainable with an engine out to use that particular departure procedure. If your aircraft cannot maintain those feet-per-nautical-mile rates, then you should not use that procedure.

Best Regards,

Buff
 
Guest

RE: Standard Climb!

Tue Apr 17, 2001 12:24 am

The climb method based on aircraft weight decreasing and allowing a higher level is called cruise climb.

Step climb is a climb dictated by ATC altitude restrictions.
 
Guest

RE: Standard Climb!

Tue Apr 17, 2001 4:42 am

Sorry M tamminiemi,

Step climbs are governed by the aircraft weight and not ATC. Look at a heavy B747 after takeoff, it will have a hard time getting above FL290 regardless of what level ATC offers it.

Your description of cruise climb is correct, but the only commercial aircraft that i know of which uses this procedure is Concorde, it is given a block of airspace to operate in rather than a specific flight level.

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