Guest

Nose Pitch On Final......

Wed May 09, 2001 1:22 pm

For some reason I always belived that on final approach pilots keep the nose up 3 degrees. However while watching Dash-8's land at my local airport I noticed that they land with the nose pointed down at least 5 degrees. Is there a standard and if not what is it usually?
 
bio15
Posts: 1048
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2001 8:10 am

RE: Nose Pitch On Final......

Wed May 09, 2001 1:55 pm

Most aircraft land 'nose up'. I'm not sure about this 'nose down' case, but it has something to do with higher landing speed. Maybe someone can expand a bit further.

-bio
 
IndianGuy
Posts: 3126
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2000 3:14 pm

RE: Nose Pitch On Final......

Wed May 09, 2001 3:55 pm

i have observed Alliance Air 732's make very high speed "dives" onto the rwy on a regular basis, pulling up just before the rwy.
 
cv640
Posts: 843
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2000 8:10 pm

RE: Nose Pitch On Final......

Wed May 09, 2001 10:58 pm

Its a 3 degree glide path that you need to maintain. Where the nose is pointed is dependant on the plane and its wing. The CRJ has no slats, so it has a very nose low approach, if you ever jump seat on one you'd swear that the crew was going to dive straight into the runway. The Saab does have a very nose low approach attitude also. The wing of the plane dictates its angle. At slower speed the angle of attack that is necessary to stay in the air and maintain Vref varies widely from aircraf t to aircraft. In jets that are designed for high speed flight, they need flaps and most needs slats. They need this make up for the slower airflow over the wing and teh less lift that they generate. If you look at jets with slats you'll notice that they have a much higher nose angle on appraoch, comapred to early DC-9s, Fokkers, and the CRJs.
The nose low approach does give you better visibility and helps you judge the flare altitude a lot better though. So, it does have a few advantages.
Hope this helps
 
zionstrat
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 3:26 am

RE: Nose Pitch On Final......

Wed May 09, 2001 11:50 pm

Thank you CV640- This is an issue I have partially understood for some time, but now it is much clearer-

One other question- I have never noticed a "nose pitch" metric on manufactures sites or other references-Is this published anywhere outside of pilot manual?

Thanks!
 
Ralgha
Posts: 1589
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 1999 6:20 pm

RE: Nose Pitch On Final......

Thu May 10, 2001 1:45 am

There is no published value for nose pitch, it's eyeballed.  Big thumbs up

(Not sure about the airliners, they might have a published value, but it seems fairly pointless to me if they had one since there's so many variables)
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
 
cv640
Posts: 843
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2000 8:10 pm

RE: Nose Pitch On Final......

Thu May 10, 2001 2:39 am

Yes, sorry there is not set value. Remember it would be based on speed, which is dependant on weight. Also a few other factors, we mainly use our eyes with the glide slope as a back up, of course those are on days when we can see the runway, otherwise we are heads inside.
 
AerLingus
Posts: 2280
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2000 9:22 am

RE: Nose Pitch On Final......

Thu May 10, 2001 1:02 pm

The final upward pitch onto the main undercarriage is known as the flair, is it not?
Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
 
Guest

RE: Nose Pitch On Final......

Thu May 10, 2001 1:21 pm

The Boeing 377 Stratocruiser landed nosewheel first...it was normal operating procedure.
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
Posts: 3960
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 1:18 am

RE: Nose Pitch On Final......

Thu May 10, 2001 2:30 pm

AerLingus.. yes you are correct. The flare corresponds with pulling the engines to idle (in most larger airplanes... smaller ones the engine goes idle alot earlier) and is used for bleeding off as much speed as possible just before touchdown (smoothness being the goal here...which is not always achieved). There are cases when you are not supposed to flare, especially in light aircraft (not sure on heavy ones) which have accumulated a load of ice on their wings. If you flare with ice on your wings the plane stalls at a much higher airspeed due to the changed wing shape... and smacks into what ever is below you, shedding the ice, possibly your landing gear struts, props, and your once clean pair of pants.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
Guest

RE: Nose Pitch On Final......

Thu May 10, 2001 11:49 pm

Yeah, I also heard somewhere that some a/c have too high speed when landing so they have to keep their nose down.
Some Dash a/c is like that and so is Ilyshin Il-114.

All the best!


BBC_CCCP
RUS AF RULES!!!
 
musang
Posts: 788
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 4:11 am

RE: Nose Pitch On Final......

Tue May 15, 2001 1:19 am

KonaB777 - Ref the Boeing 337, the Super Guppies which were converted from the Strats also used to land nosewheel first depending on how they were loaded and the weight. I heard they were retrofitted with Boeing 707 nosegears to withstand the impacts!

_ Musang
 
miller22
Posts: 595
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2000 4:48 am

RE: Nose Pitch On Final......

Tue May 15, 2001 1:29 am

Its all about the slats and where the engines are located.

CRJ has no slats and has rear engines, hence the nose seems very low. The higher line of thrust pushes the nose down, while on a 737, 757 or any other aircraft with wing mounted engines, it pulls the nose up. Opposite happens during thrust reverse, as can be expected.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests