ejaymd11
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Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Tue Aug 07, 2001 7:58 am

I've been hearing that major MD-80 operators such as American Airlines, and Delta Airlines are going to be getting rid of there MD-80/90's if this is true why. The MD-80s and especiall the MD-90 still have plenty of life left in them so why are they leaving.

Ejay MD-11
 
Notar520AC
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Tue Aug 07, 2001 9:46 am

I can't imagine American getting rid of them, I mean what would they replace them with. I haven't heard anything, but AA has so many of those I'd be surprised if they did lay them to rest in pieces in the graveyards.
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FBU 4EVER!
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Tue Aug 07, 2001 3:21 pm

They may be out of production and some airlines are exchanging some almost 20-year old specimens with newer planes,but they will still be around for at least another 10-15 years.

Hushkits are being studied,as well.
"Luck and superstition wins all the time"!
 
mb339
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Tue Aug 07, 2001 6:39 pm

That's true.
For example Alitalia, which has the largest european fleet of Md82, is going to replace these aircrafts with the newest A320. [A319-A320-A321]
 
vanguard737
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Wed Aug 08, 2001 9:06 am

Contrary to what Notar520AC and FBU are saying, yes, American andDelta are retiring their entire MD-80 fleets. An aquaintance of mine who works for American informed me they have slready started retirement in fabor of the 737-800. The same goes just for Delta as well.

Vanguard737

320 717 722 732 733 735 737 738 744 752 753 763 772 DC9 DC10 MD80 B1900 S340 E120 ERJ CRJ CR7
 
Guest

RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Wed Aug 08, 2001 6:52 pm

The MD80's that AA is currently retiring and replacing with B737-800's are the one's acquired from Reno Air last year. The do not conform to the rest of the AA MD80's and AA decided that it was better to get rid of them than to convert them over to AA standards. All of the Reno Air MD80s should be gone by next January.
 
oytun
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Fri Aug 10, 2001 5:01 pm

Hi, This should be right. Three days ago I saw a MD 83 taking off. The plane was waiting at the apron for 2 hours 45 min. Although the schedueled departure time was 07: 15, it departured at 10:00. I can noy think about the passengers that how funny they are. One observation was that the plane produced a lot of smoke during take off. I am afraid they are having the last days.
 
Guest

RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Mon Aug 13, 2001 12:06 pm

I dont know about AA but Delta is replacing there 727 and 737-200 with the new 737-800.I havent heard about any MD-80 or MD-90' being replaced.
 
PGNCS
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:31 pm



Quoting Ejaymd11 (Thread starter):
I've been hearing that major md-80 operators such as American Airlines, and Delta Airlines are going to be getting rid of there md-80/90's if this is true why. The md-80s and especiall the MD-90 still have plenty of life left in them so why are they leaving.



Quoting Vanguard737 (Reply 4):
Contrary to what Notar520AC and FBU are saying, yes, American andDelta are retiring their entire MD-80 fleets. An aquaintance of mine who works for American informed me they have slready started retirement in fabor of the 737-800. The same goes just for Delta as well.



Quoting Oytun (Reply 6):
Hi, This should be right. Three days ago I saw a MD 83 taking off. The plane was waiting at the apron for 2 hours 45 min. Although the schedueled departure time was 07: 15, it departured at 10:00. I can noy think about the passengers that how funny they are. One observation was that the plane produced a lot of smoke during take off. I am afraid they are having the last days.

While searching for something else I came across this from 2000/2001, and found it rather entertaining. 80's may be finally starting out the doors at AA now, but the rumor's of the MD-80's death are greatly exaggerated. I guess the longstanding of this line of speculation was what amused and surprised me most.
 
TSS
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:48 pm



Quoting PGNCS (Reply 8):
80's may be finally starting out the doors at AA now, but the rumor's of the MD-80's death are greatly exaggerated.

Indeed. I wonder if the current drop in fuel prices hasn't given some of the MD-80s a temporary "stay of execution"?
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Dalmd88
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:46 pm

DL has parked a few MD80's this fall. They are only parked and not retired at this time. The possiblity of more MD90's coming into the fleet is still there also.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:33 pm



Quoting Notar520AC (Reply 1):
I can't imagine American getting rid of them, I mean what would they replace them with.

737NG's. More economical, longer range, and with the same fuselage cross-section as the 757, it can be used to introduce premium services on medium-haul flights that don't merit a widebody like SAN-BOS.
-Doc Lightning-

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delcoder
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:35 pm

Having worked for American for over 30 years, I can't tell you how many times and for how long I heard we were getting rid of the 727 until it actually happened.

As I understand it, the decision for retiring an aircraft fleet is purely a monetary one. The older the airplane the longer and more extensive the C check hence the greater the cost. Generally, the older the airplane the more frequently things fail. More cost. Older model engines are not as fuel efficient as newer ones. More cost. When the equasion gets to the point that the cash outflow to keep and maintain an aging fleet exceeds the cost of acquiring new aircraft the old ones will go. There is one exception, however. With respect to the 727, in the time frame when American wished to retire them, they could not get replacement aircraft quickly enough and the public was flying like crazy. In that context, it made sense to keep them and make a small profit margin rather than retiring them and make no profit margin.
 
ThePinnacleKid
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:45 pm



Quoting TSS (Reply 9):
Indeed. I wonder if the current drop in fuel prices hasn't given some of the MD-80s a temporary "stay of execution"?

I doubt it... more I would say, it allows them to make some money in the short term to offset the expenditures in the acquisition of their replacements...
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:25 pm

So it just occurred to me that the reason this thread seems so idiotic is because the first post was in 2001.

Now who looks idiotic?
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ThePinnacleKid
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:44 pm



Quoting PGNCS (Reply 8):
While searching for something else I came across this from 2000/2001, and found it rather entertaining. 80's may be finally starting out the doors at AA now, but the rumor's of the MD-80's death are greatly exaggerated. I guess the longstanding of this line of speculation was what amused and surprised me most.

It's alright Doc.. I had to look through it before posting because I noticed it was old... there was the post that revived it...
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
soon7x7
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:27 pm

Is it possible that the JT8's are being run out with no ambition to replace them, making the airframe type useless...(just a thought). Not too much around anymore with PW JT8's...
 
jetstar
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:57 pm



Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 16):
Is it possible that the JT8's are being run out with no ambition to replace them, making the airframe type useless...(just a thought). Not too much around anymore with PW JT8's...

When engines are run out, they are overhauled, not replaced with new engines.

There are still hundreds of DC-9/MD80’s and 727’s still flying around the world. P&W still supports and manufacturers spare parts for the JT8 and will continue for a long time because parts are a profitable business. In addition there probably are other companies making parts under a PMA approval.

I read in Aviation Week magazine that P&W is going back in production for the JT8 to support a re-engining program for the former civilian B-707’s that the Air Force uses to replace the original JT4 engines.
 
soon7x7
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:58 pm



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 17):

I'm aware of overhaul options and hush kits and all that stuff...just seems that newer types that are more fuel efficient are more attractive to airlines and builders...eventually the JT-8 will go the way of JT-3's for some reason or another...just a matter of time...
 
Viscount724
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:34 am



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 17):
I read in Aviation Week magazine that P&W is going back in production for the JT8 to support a re-engining program for the former civilian B-707’s that the Air Force uses to replace the original JT4 engines.

Yes I read that article also. The primary re-engining project is for the 17 USAF E-8C J-STARS radar targeting/surveillance aircraft which were converted from retired commercial 707-320C airframes. They use the JT3D turbofan (TF-33 in military terminology)), not the JT4 which was a turbojet used on the DC-8-20/30 and 707-220/320 and several military types but not on any US military 707 variants.
 
767nutter
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:08 pm



Quoting Ejaymd11 (Thread starter):
I've been hearing that major MD-80 operators such as American Airlines, and Delta Airlines are going to be getting rid of there MD-80/90's if this is true why. The MD-80s and especiall the MD-90 still have plenty of life left in them so why are they leaving.

Ejay MD-11

Heres how it is at the moment ( all varients of MD-80/90)

AA

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AA were saying they would be replacing the MD-80's with 737-800's but the A320 was also being considered. However the size of the MD-80 fleet means the MD-80 will still be flying for a while to come, unless of course AA go bust or decide to get rid of them altogether and cut routes which i doubt.
 
LMP737
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:30 pm



Quoting 767nutter (Reply 20):
However the size of the MD-80 fleet means the MD-80 will still be flying for a while to come, unless of course AA go bust

Anything is possible in the US airline industry, I just hope it does not happen.

Quoting 767nutter (Reply 20):
or decide to get rid of them altogether and cut routes which i doubt.

They won't dump them all at once of course. However I doubt the 80 fleet will be replaced on a one-for one basis given the current economic climate and the emphasis placed on international routes.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
hercppmx
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:43 pm

I don't remember which threads I've read it in but I believe starting in Jan 09 AA is going to start taking delivery of a new 738 something like every 10 days. I'm gonna try and find a link

Found One:
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...3023&s=AA+738+deliveries#ID4143023

[Edited 2008-10-25 09:47:40]
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Max Q
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:36 am

It's a very inefficient, noisy cramped airframe these days when you compare it with anything new from A or B, time for it to go.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
Max Q
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:31 am

It's a very inefficient, noisy cramped airframe these days when you compare it with anything new from A or B, time for it to go.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
TSS
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:10 pm



Quoting Max Q (Reply 24):
It's a very inefficient, noisy cramped airframe these days when you compare it with anything new from A or B, time for it to go.

Cramped? MD-80s use the same seats as 737s or A320s, and how closely those seats are mounted to each other depends on the individual operator, not on the aircraft itself. Also, your chances of getting a middle "Y" seat in an MD-80 are one-in-five versus one-in-three in either the 737 or A320.

Noisy? Only if you're in the last four rows of seats. The further forward you sit in an MD-80, the quieter it is.

Inefficient? From a strictly flight-by-flight standpoint, probably so as MD-80s use older technology engines that are somewhat more thirsty than modern equivalents (although I've yet to see a side-by-side comparison of gallons per seat mileage between an MD-80 and a 737 or A320). From an "big picture" standpoint, the fact that most of the MD-80s in service are already paid-for makes a big difference in their daily operational cost, which is partially offset back to the negative side by the increased maintenance costs of the aging airframes. I personally understand this all too well, as I'm in a similar situation with my car: It's old and not very fuel-efficient, but it's paid-for and it's maintenance costs, while more than a new car's would be, are nowhere near the monthly cost of a car payment.
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Max Q
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:10 pm

Our configuration was pretty cramped, I really meant noisy on the outside, when I flew them we
burned around 7000 Pounds an hour average which is pretty poor when you compare it to a 738 carrying more pax and freight burning around 5000.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
TSS
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:14 am



Quoting Max Q (Reply 26):
I really meant noisy on the outside

Gotcha. No argument there. I've heard rumors that there are people outside ANet who don't like the sound of jet engines.  Wink

Quoting Max Q (Reply 26):
when I flew them we
burned around 7000 Pounds an hour average which is pretty poor when you compare it to a 738 carrying more pax and freight burning around 5000.

YES! Finally, raw numbers! Thank you!
A 30%-ish difference in fuel burn IS a huge difference.
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aviationbuff
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:30 am

SV has a fleet of 27 MD-80's, which will be replaced in the near future by A320's. The reason for the replacement is that MD-80's does not have the legs to do some sectors for them and they are forced to deploy B777 on thin routes.

They have also received 15 E170's for short routes.
 
pfletch1228
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:32 pm



Quoting Max Q (Reply 26):
burned around 7000 Pounds an hour average

That must have been on VERY SHORT pairings. Fuel flow in the cruise at .77 @ FL35 is normally about 3100/lbs/hour/engine. So about 6200lbs per hour. On a similar pairing, a 738 will burn about 4900lbs/hour. Expressed another way, thats approx 950 gallons per hour for the MD80 vs 710 gallons per hour for the 738. The lease on a new 738 is about $280,000 per month, so do the math...
War does not determine who is right. War determines who is left.
 
twal1011727
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:15 pm

It sure is interesting how this thread hasn't been used for 7 years then it pops up again
with more responses than when it was posted.

KD
 
Max Q
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:39 am

Typical legs for us were about 2.5 - 3.5 hours generally with a full load operating usually at .78
Mach.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
josekmlb
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:33 am

Correct me if I am wrong but I think the md-88s will be replaced with the 737-700s for DELTA
 
tinpusher007
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:59 pm



Quoting Oldelwood (Reply 7):
dont know about AA but Delta is replacing there 727 and 737-200 with the new 737-800.I havent heard about any MD-80 or MD-90' being replaced.

Um Delta has retired their 727's and 732's for quite some time now. And yes the 727's direct replacement was the 738. The 732's im not sure were directly replaced, but perhaps backfilled with RJ's.

Quoting JoseKMLB (Reply 32):
Correct me if I am wrong but I think the md-88s will be replaced with the 737-700s for DELTA

This is incorrect. Delta has only ordered 10 73G's for their performance on certain S. American and Caribbean routes. They will not replace 100+ MD-88's. Its my understanding that the operational costs of the 73G are almost identical to the 738 which has more seats.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
TrijetsRMissed
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:26 pm

The funny thing is, in another seven years, someone is going to look back at similiar threads that have been written recently about the MD-80's demise, and have a good laugh. Particularly any thread related to AA.

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 33):
Um Delta has retired their 727's and 732's for quite some time now.

Reply 7 was from quite some time ago... check the date.
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
PGNCS
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:50 am



Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 34):
The funny thing is, in another seven years, someone is going to look back at similiar threads that have been written recently about the MD-80's demise, and have a good laugh. Particularly any thread related to AA.

Hey Trijets!

You beat me to the punch line!  Smile
 
Northwest727
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RE: Are MD-80's Saying Good-bye

Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:59 pm



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 17):
I read in Aviation Week magazine that P&W is going back in production for the JT8 to support a re-engining program for the former civilian B-707’s that the Air Force uses to replace the original JT4 engines.

P&W is also supposed to keep the JT8D-200 in production for a new supersonic business jet. Not sure if the high oil prices killed that off or if it is still in the works though.

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