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Bruce
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How Hard Is It To Fly One?

Wed Sep 12, 2001 7:31 am

How difficult is it to "fly" a 767 and 757, visually. I mean, could a terrorist with no aviation experience actually take the stick and guide the jet down to the correct altitude and on the correct heading to hit such a target as the WTC?
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
flight152
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RE: How Hard Is It To Fly One?

Wed Sep 12, 2001 9:03 am

They must of had aviation experence.
 
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Bruce
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RE: How Hard Is It To Fly One?

Wed Sep 12, 2001 9:08 am

So they may have overpowered the real pilots before getting on the plane - took their uniforms... what happened to the "real" pilots who were supposed to be in the cockpit?

I think it had to happend BEFORE pushback...because in the case of the IAD flight, as soon as the plane took off it veered off and headed to the pentagon. There was no time **after** takeoff to storm the cockpit and take over.

If this is true, then it is an inexcusable lapse of security.

Now: why wouldn't the co-pilot notice that his Pilot looked a little strange, a little nervous?
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
Guest

RE: How Hard Is It To Fly One?

Wed Sep 12, 2001 9:14 am

Chances are they did it shortly after take off, I highly doubt they did it before the flight.
Iain
 
Guest

RE: How Hard Is It To Fly One?

Wed Sep 12, 2001 9:19 am

I think it would be a simple task to get thru the "cardboard door", two to three could easily get in in short order after take off. Strange they picked a aircraft with a common type rating. Could have even been to school at Seattle Boeing as contract customers and rented the simulator for some familarization with their "own" instructors. Quite possible. Time will tell. By the way, it's a very easy aircraft to fly, just a big Piper cub.. Max
 
iwantanL1011
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RE: How Hard Is It To Fly One?

Wed Sep 12, 2001 11:05 am

My suspicion is they were trained in the type.... Maneuvering the aircraft to arrive at the WTC at the proper altitude, then apply full thrust prior to impact (without gaining altitute) would require practice and
familiarity with the a.c
 
Notar520AC
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RE: How Hard Is It To Fly One?

Wed Sep 12, 2001 1:58 pm

They were probably trained, but to me, when I fly the chopper & fixed wings it's only a little more complicated than driving.
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CX Flyboy
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RE: How Hard Is It To Fly One?

Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:39 pm

I heard that they switched the transponders off, so they must have had some training. The average Joe would not even know what a transponder was, let alone where it was in the cockpit and how to turn it off.
 
eal401
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RE: How Hard Is It To Fly One?

Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:13 pm

Could that be true, after all, they tracked them all on radar up until impact.
 
mandala499
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RE: How Hard Is It To Fly One?

Wed Sep 12, 2001 8:57 pm

The planes were at cruising when it was taken over by the hijackers. Then after securing the planes, they set their headings to their targets... This means, they know how to operate the RNAV/FMC and autopilot functions.

With regards to the one hitting the pentagon, the wife of the US solicitor general was on the plane and she called saying the pilots and passengers were told to move to the back of the plane...

Another plane reported the hijackers used small knives and said get out of the cockpit or they'll blow the plane.

Sad day indeed...

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: How Hard Is It To Fly One?

Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:14 am

Eal401,

Turning the transponders off merely removes much of the information provided to the ATC screens, however, it does not make the aircraft vanish. Primary radar would still track the aircraft position though.
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: How Hard Is It To Fly One?

Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:54 am

Not only did they know how to operate the FMS and transponders, but they also were pretty skilled in flying the plane.. they were down on the deck with those things and manuevering around. This probably wasnt formal type training in the airplanes, but just specific for this "mission."
Chicks dig winglets.
 
Guest

RE: How Hard Is It To Fly One?

Thu Sep 13, 2001 2:18 am

Would you need to know how to use the FMC, couldn't they not just turn of the a/p and use GPS to find NY.
Iain
 
Guest

RE: How Hard Is It To Fly One?

Thu Sep 13, 2001 2:26 am

They also could have tuned into one of the many VOR's in the new york area and aproximated a radial that would take them into the city.
 
brett80211
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RE: How Hard Is It To Fly One?

Thu Sep 13, 2001 3:32 am

I just saw on the news that 2 of the Hijackers had went to florida a year ago and got their Commercial Linceses. So I think that these people had known what they were doing.
 
avionic
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RE: How Hard Is It To Fly One?

Thu Sep 13, 2001 6:12 am

Some training must have been required...but the striking fact is that they "chose" similar cockpitts as the 757 and 767 has....whether they have hands on experience or they trained on fs2000 and maybe even with 767pic addon (which i might add is as close as you can get to a real 767 with all panels working and functioning FMC), I don´t know but with proper training on these few things everybody can acquire anybody can fly a 767/757 on autopilot....the tough part comes when the autopilot is off....whether they flew themselves into the buildings or if they let the autopilot do it all the way in ....by the way any 767/757 out there who know if the autopilot is capable of being commanded into terrain? .....Well let us see when they find the CVR/DFDR´s what happened....terrible....terrible......
 
ajaaron
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Here's The Easiest Way To Do It...

Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:16 am

No need for FMS training - GPS, etc.

How does this sound:

1. Select AIRPORTS to show on EHSI

2. Adjust heading bug to fly towards KEWR (Newark), and engage in heading select mode

3. You'll become visual with WTC from many miles out- and visibility looked very good yesterday

4. Descend visually

5. Take out autopilot when close to target and fly into building

They didn't need to know about FMS, GPS, but I guess they knew how to turn off transponder - easy to learn on any PPL course, and points 1-5 learn on FS 2000 with 767 PIC -

Does all this sound reasonable ?

It would be interesting to hear your thoughts
 
ajaaron
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Here's How They Did It

Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:17 am

Topic: Here's The Easiest Way To Do It...

Username: Ajaaron
Posted 09-13-01 01:16 and read 1 times.
No need for FMS training - GPS, etc.

How does this sound:

1. Select AIRPORTS to show on EHSI

2. Adjust heading bug to fly towards KEWR (Newark), and engage in heading select mode

3. You'll become visual with WTC from many miles out- and visibility looked very good yesterday

4. Descend visually

5. Take out autopilot when close to target and fly into building

They didn't need to know about FMS, GPS, but I guess they knew how to turn off transponder - easy to learn on any PPL course, and points 1-5 learn on FS 2000 with 767 PIC -

Does all this sound reasonable ?

It would be interesting to hear your thoughts


 
EssentialPowr
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RE: How Hard Is It To Fly One?

Thu Sep 13, 2001 10:04 am

Ever heard of a sectional and a VFR day?
Ever flown a visual into EWR?


Zero automation was required; just immense hatred.
 
AJ
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RE: How Hard Is It To Fly One?

Thu Sep 13, 2001 11:10 am

Media are saying that at least two of the suspects attended a Flight Safety B757/767 course at Vero Beach, Florida. They knew what they were doing BIG TIME!
 
tbar220
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RE: How Hard Is It To Fly One?

Thu Sep 13, 2001 2:05 pm

As to the original intent or question of the post, I don't know how easy it would be to just take the stick and handle the aircraft.

I guess as long as you don't stall the aircraft, or crash it into the ground...if you don't adjust the throttle you could handle it, although it would be very erratic.
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242
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RE: How Hard Is It To Fly One?

Thu Sep 13, 2001 3:01 pm

The 767 isn't all that hard to fly. I've got several hours in 762/3/4 full motion sims, and even I, a zero time novice (with extensive system knowledge), was able to get off the ground, fly around,and land (very sloppy) my first try. If these people had any flight training at all, it would have been a piece of cake to do what they did on 9/11.
 
Guest

RE: How Hard Is It To Fly One?

Fri Sep 14, 2001 1:03 am

Looks like I hit the nail on the head in my above post? Looks like "time" is telling...

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