flyordie
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2001 5:40 am

Airline Pilots...How Much Do You Know?

Thu Oct 18, 2001 5:30 am

Welcome Ladies and Gentlemen,

I'm not interested on how much you know, as much as how much you need to know. What I mean is this...I'm a practicing engineer (and an aspiring airline pilot), and after all my years of study I can say that I probably use about 5% of what I learned in college in my everyday workday. I am currently in the middle of my instrument training and I'm trying to learn everything and anything, but don't know what I should put more emphasis on. Now, I understand the more I know the better off I am when it comes to flying. But that's not what I'm interested in. Can anyone give me a % of total knowledge acquired to reach airline pilot status used in your every day routine flights.

Thanks in advance,
flyordie

 
seagull
Posts: 334
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2001 5:58 pm

RE: Airline Pilots...How Much Do You Know?

Thu Oct 18, 2001 6:33 am

You will use most of it fairly often if you are doing your job right. Possible to slack, I suppose, but it will catch up with you on a check ride or in some situation.
 
LaTechpilot
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:11 am

RE: Airline Pilots...How Much Do You Know?

Thu Oct 18, 2001 8:37 am

The tiny details you learn during your instrument training will probably be forgotten soon after you get your ticket. As an airline pilot, everything is so routine, I couldn't tell you what I know and what I don't know. I don't want to equate the job to driving a car, but that is the comfort level you achieve after flying in the IFR system day in and day out. Airline pilots do not have to plan routes, fuel burns, alternates, etc. because a dispatcher is employed to do these tasks. I'd say that is the part of your instrument training that will become vague after becoming an airline pilot. Instrument approach procedures are what you'll perfect. I've often wondered how I'd do if I had to take my instrument oral or written exam over again without studying for several days.
 
seagull
Posts: 334
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2001 5:58 pm

RE: Airline Pilots...How Much Do You Know?

Thu Oct 18, 2001 9:18 am

Late,

I'm sorry to hear that. I've heard of that from F/O's but usually not when you're signing for the jet. Complacency will catch up with you. I catch dispatch errors of all sorts. You should be able to do the work even if others normally do it for you, otherwise, how do you know the numbers are right?
 
LaTechpilot
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:11 am

RE: Airline Pilots...How Much Do You Know?

Thu Oct 18, 2001 9:55 am

Seagull,

I see that you are an MD-11 captain for a major US airline. I hope my post did not convey that I/we get complacent. My point is that most of the planning is not our responsibility, yet we are responsible for it. In fact, I do not even have access to the fuel consuption/ burn schedules for my aircraft, nor do I have access to ATC preferred IFR routing, nor can I input my expected flight route into a computer or look at a graph and tell you to the minute how long the flight will take taking into consideration winds along the route. I doubt you have these abilities either. Yes, didpatch has been known to make errors, and these errors usually fall into the category of poor alternate airport choices or lack of hold fuel. Let me bring this point up...do you study the Airman's Information Manual before each PC? These are the details that I intended to let the original poster know he will probably find hard to recall after several years.
 
seagull
Posts: 334
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2001 5:58 pm

RE: Airline Pilots...How Much Do You Know?

Thu Oct 18, 2001 1:32 pm

Latech,

Can I give you a precise burn number? No, but I sure as heck know the average fuel flow and I look at the enroute time and figure if the number looks right to me. I know my cruise speed, I know the distances. I do take the distances off the release, but I eyeball them and have a rough idea if they are close (I caught a major error in a trip in east Asia once). I don't need preferred routing, but I do look at the routing. I know where to find that stuff if I need it, and have done all of that on charters (including my own weight and balance by hand!). I look at the winds aloft and look at the computers wind component and see if they jibe.

Do I do it all to the exact detail? No, but I do know how to do it and would feel confident doing it (would take more than an hour prior to dept to get airborne, though!).

Finally, no, I don't study the AIM before each PC, but I do read it and the applicable sections of PANS-OPS once/year and also the company FOM cover to cover once/year. Over the years I have reached the point that I can skim many parts, concentrating on the changes. I also read through the intro section of the jepps.
 
flyordie
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2001 5:40 am

RE: Airline Pilots...How Much Do You Know?

Fri Oct 19, 2001 1:14 am

Seagull and Latechpilot,

I just wanted to say thanks for both your inputs. Any bith of advice is always well taken.

Thanx again
 
Ziggy
Posts: 173
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2001 11:07 am

RE: Airline Pilots...How Much Do You Know?

Fri Oct 19, 2001 1:52 pm

Sorry to divert the subject, but what is the PANS-OPS or what operations does it cover?
 
seagull
Posts: 334
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2001 5:58 pm

RE: Airline Pilots...How Much Do You Know?

Fri Oct 19, 2001 11:50 pm

International procedures. In reality, aviation all over the world is governed by PANS-OPS and each state publishes only differences from PANS-OPS. U.S. has a lot of them!
 
jjbiv
Posts: 1203
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 10:58 am

RE: Airline Pilots...How Much Do You Know?

Sat Oct 20, 2001 2:20 am

Interesting. Are these ops specs available online or in print?
 
seagull
Posts: 334
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2001 5:58 pm

RE: Airline Pilots...How Much Do You Know?

Sat Oct 20, 2001 6:25 am

The are not "Ops Specs", that term applies to a very specific thing. They are the Procedures for Air Navigation Services-Aircraft Operations, Document 8168, Volume 1, Flight Procedures, which are instrument and approach procedures from ICAO. Rules of the Air, Annex 2 and Annex 11. The term is also used to apply to those applicable procedures within PANS-RAC, Document 4444. In addition, pilot are required to be familiar with State Rules and Procedures, which contained published deviations from PANS-OPS.

These can be purchased from ICAO (not online that I know of, if you find them, let me know), or through Jeppesen (which is the source my company provides us).
 
jjbiv
Posts: 1203
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 10:58 am

RE: Airline Pilots...How Much Do You Know?

Mon Oct 22, 2001 2:49 pm

Thanks a lot for the specifics Seagull...Keep the freight flying

joe

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