dripstick
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PAINT: A Heavy Question

Sat Mar 30, 2002 2:17 am

I took the Boeing plant tour several years back at Everett, Washington and at the end of the tour we could see the painting facility from a distance.

My question is; how much in terms of either weight or percentage of total weight does a typical paint job add to different types of aircarft?


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Trent_800
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RE: PAINT: A Heavy Question

Sat Mar 30, 2002 2:34 am

Ive heard that the paint on a 744 can weigh up to as much as 1 Ton.
 
747Teach
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Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2000 3:05 am

RE: PAINT: A Heavy Question

Sat Mar 30, 2002 2:59 am

Dripstick: The exact weight of paint would be hard to determine, as some is lost during application. And of course, paint schemes vary widely, from complete coverage to only stripes or logos. From my personal experience, a full coverage paint job on a 747 consumes about 60 gallons of primer with reducer, and 60 gallons of topcoat with reducer. When applied with electrostatic paint equipment, most of the paint goes onto the surface, not into the surrounding air. And one manufacturer's high-solids paint weighs about 10 pounds per gallon. So the weight would be somewhere in the vicinity of 1200 pounds.
When new paint jobs are applied, some operators will remove the old paint, and prime and paint back out from the metal surface. And some operators will only prep the existing paint surface, and apply the new paint over the older paint. Of course, successive layers of paint eventually mean more weight to carry around. As most paint removal chemicals will attack the fiberglass surfaces, the fairings are often just prepared by scuff-sanding, and the new primer and paint applied over the old paint. I've worked on many fairings that had 12 to 15 different layers of primer, anti-static, and topcoat applied during successive paint jobs.
The best technique to find out how much the paint job would weigh would be to weigh the aircraft just prior to the initial paint application, then reweigh the aircraft after the paint job is complete. Boeing has probably done this at least once, and could perhaps supply an accurate figure. And just for your interest, the last full paint job on a 747 I was involved with cost approximately $147,000, for materials and labor. Regards,
 
PanAm747
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RE: PAINT: A Heavy Question

Sat Mar 30, 2002 3:48 am

>>from complete coverage to only stripes or logos.<<

But even with stripes and logos you have to paint the white background on.

I heard that AA saves millions of dollars of fuel each year because of the small amount of paint they use.

I also heard red is the most expensive color for some reason.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
Staffan
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RE: PAINT: A Heavy Question

Sat Mar 30, 2002 4:27 am

Having unpainted a/c isn't cheap either since you have to protect the bare metal from corrosion.


 
TechRep
Posts: 1877
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RE: PAINT: A Heavy Question

Sat Mar 30, 2002 4:35 am

Its 800 pounds for a DC-8 with top coat (primer). It was the first question I asked when I was a young mechanic. Great question BTW....

TechRep
 
AAR90
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RE: PAINT: A Heavy Question

Sat Mar 30, 2002 5:45 am

From a previous post, same subject, last summer:
===========================
And for those who continue to claim there is no cost savings by not painting airplanes, the following from AA Pilot Q&A forum:

Painted vs. Non-Painted

Q: Over the course of a year, what is the estimated fuel savings operating an AA non-painted 757 vs a painted one like United for example? What's the weight difference?
A: Sorry for the delay. The weight difference between a polished and a painted B757 is about 200lbs. With about 120,000 annual departures, this translates into about $300,000 annually in savings in fuel.
===================================
The above numbers were for AA's 757 fleet only.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
747Teach
Posts: 176
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RE: PAINT: A Heavy Question

Sat Mar 30, 2002 3:24 pm

PanAm747: "But even with stripes and logos you HAVE to paint the white background on." Gee . . . . guess we'd better call American, Eastern, Flying Tigers, Northwest Cargo, et al, and tell them to get their paint guns out.
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Red high-solids, low VOC polyurethane paint may be slightly more expensive from some suppliers due to the additional solids (pigment) in the paint to prevent fading. Regards,
 
ktliem@YVR
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RE: PAINT: A Heavy Question

Tue Apr 02, 2002 4:00 am

Boeing Aero Magazine published an article about painting vs. polishing a while ago. Here's the link:http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_05/textonly/fo01txt.html
Table 1: Decorative Paint Scheme Weights, Lb (Kg) shows how much weight paint add to the different Boeing aircrafts. Big grin
 
crank
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RE: PAINT: A Heavy Question

Tue Apr 02, 2002 7:11 am

I've heard on Discovery Channel that it required 180 kilos of paint to paint the Air Canada 767-300.
 
ILOVEA340
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RE: PAINT: A Heavy Question

Tue Apr 02, 2002 8:49 am

They tell kids on kid shows that a 747 paint job adds the weight of a hourse to the plane.
 
BWIrwy4
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RE: PAINT: A Heavy Question

Tue Apr 02, 2002 10:52 am

Is that a house, a horse, or both? Big grin
 
CPH-R
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RE: PAINT: A Heavy Question

Tue Apr 02, 2002 11:02 am

What have you never heard of a hourse before?  Big thumbs up
Hmm.. That "post too short" message showed up.
 
airplay
Posts: 3369
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RE: PAINT: A Heavy Question

Tue Apr 02, 2002 11:17 am

I once read that most barns were originally painted red because it was the "cheapest" paint.

In the real world, red is very hard to maintain. Some contains iron oxide (also known as "rust") to enrich the color. Unfortunately the highly reactive mixture oxidizes and becomes dull very easily.

 
ILOVEA340
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RE: PAINT: A Heavy Question

Tue Apr 02, 2002 11:37 am

 Smile sorry
that is a horse
damit thats too short
damit still too short, lets try again.........
 
UPS763
Posts: 195
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RE: PAINT: A Heavy Question

Tue Apr 02, 2002 11:46 am

I believe American Airlines, with regards to it's MD-80 fleet, saves about $380,000 in fuel from not painting its fleet. Not sure about how much it costs for corrosion proctection though.

Matt
 
penguinflies
Posts: 932
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RE: PAINT: A Heavy Question

Fri Apr 05, 2002 3:06 pm

this is from an old boeing article "paint versus polishing"

Summary
Though the wieght of paint adds to fuel consumption, the fuel-cost savings offered by polished surfaces is outweighed by the cost of maintaining the polished surfaces. However, because this difference is a very small percentage of operating cost, many operators decide to paint or polish their airplanes based on marketing and environmental impact considerations. Some believe that a distinctive image can best be achieved with a full paint scheme, while others believe the image can be projected best by mostly polished surfaces. The availability of safe solvents and facilities that comply with environmental laws can also play a role in the choice between painting and polishing.
 
JOliver
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RE: PAINT: A Heavy Question

Thu Apr 11, 2002 3:27 am

I saw a trivia calendar once (hardly a great source, but..) proclaiming that an
MD-11 weighs 300 lbs more with paint than w/o
Clear skies to all --JaO
 
L-188
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RE: PAINT: A Heavy Question

Thu Apr 11, 2002 9:19 pm

We have a copy of an internal UPS newsletter at the office here called The UPS DISPATCH. I assume we stole it from them.

Anyway in the edition we have Volume 8 Number 6 they have one of those little triva facts boxes. This one has the weight of the paint they use on their aircraft.

It is as follows.....
767 105 gallons of paint weighing 750 pounds
757 90 gallons of paint weighting 650 pounds
727 78 gallons of paint weighting 565 pounds
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
dripstick
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RE: PAINT: A Heavy Question

Thu Apr 11, 2002 9:35 pm

Thanks for all the great information guys, appreciated.


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Vez
Posts: 79
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RE: PAINT: A Heavy Question

Sun Apr 14, 2002 10:24 am

The weight of the gallons of paint given in the thread are WITH the solvent. The solvent evaporates, right? So the dried paint must weight less I suppose.

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