PanAm747
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Anyone Fly A Homeade Plane?

Wed Apr 17, 2002 6:38 am

Has anyone ever done it? How much time and money does it require?
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ILOVEA340
Posts: 2064
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 1999 9:49 am

RE: Anyone Fly A Homeade Plane?

Wed Apr 17, 2002 7:07 am

My dad is thinking about the RV-8. As far as I can tell its the best in its class. For this one with quich build option expect to have a total with a new Lycoming IO-360 engine and all tools and instruments of around $65,000 About 5-8k less with a refurb engine. There are kits which are much cheaper but the RV-8 makes up for its extra price with preformance.

the have a great website at: http://www.vansaircraft.com

200kt cruise 220kt max
1000 sm range at cruse with 42 gallons
780 lbs useful load (one of the highest for any 2 seat kitplane)
 
HAL
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:38 am

RE: Anyone Fly A Homeade Plane?

Wed Apr 17, 2002 7:58 am

That's a little like asking 'how much does a car cost?'

You can buy just the plans and parts, then build a tiny one seater with a used engine and minimal instruments for under $10,000 and a few months of your time. For that you can putter around your local area in the daytime and good weather and have a ball.

On the other hand, you can buy a kit plane like the Pressurized Lancair IV with carbon fiber structure, a brand new twin-turbo 350 h.p. engine, and the most modern liquid crystal display screen instruments, spend upwards of $300,000 to $400,000 and take every free moment of your life for two to three years to build it. It'll fly at over 300 knots at 29,000 feet, require advanced piloting skills, and get you from coast to coast in one day.

Each one has it's good and bad points. What you decide to build should be based on your ability, your budget, and what you want the airplane for. If you just want to take friends over the town for a day, the Lancair will eat your budget up faster than you can believe. But if you want (or need) to travel far and fast, it's just the ticket. Same can be said for almost any homebuilt.

I think there are over 500 different kits and plans available. If you're seriously interested, the best place to start is the EAA (Experimental Aviation Association), the big homebuilders association. They can answer any questions you have, and help you with advice and almost anything else you might need.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
PPGMD
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RE: Anyone Fly A Homeade Plane?

Wed Apr 17, 2002 11:21 am

Order a copy of the Aviation Spruce and Specilaty catalog. They have a list of the popular homebuilts.

An RV-8 costs $23,000 for the kit plus another $20,000 for the engine. Factor in $5,000 for instruments (Day VFR), the best guess would be about $50,000 certified.

Or there is the Sonex which you can build for about $20,000.

Finally there is the Lancair solution that you can build like the previous said above. The costs all depends on the type of aircraft that you want and the options that you choose.

Here are a couple of sites to visit
http://www.sonex-ltd.com/costs.html
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/main.html
http://www.vansaircraft.com/
http://www.eaa.org

Also consider visiting Airventure, Sun n Fun, or one of your regional EAA fly-ins. Some have the manufacurs there so you can talk to them, at worst case you can talk to the builders or current pilots.

There are many options only one is right for you at any particular time.
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
ILOVEA340
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Ppgmd

Wed Apr 17, 2002 3:29 pm

unfortunetly it is nearly immpossible to build an RV 8 for that price. Also quickbuild costs extra and uless you are either planning on working 10 hours a day on the plane or having the project last for 5-10 years the quickbuild it right for you. It cuts build time from 1600 hours to around 850. Also you will want more than basic IFR (day) instruments especially in a good performing plane like this. Then you have add-ons like nav. lights and prop a good 6k for a good one...
 
L-188
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RE: Anyone Fly A Homeade Plane?

Wed Apr 17, 2002 4:42 pm

I would love to spend the $60 bucks and pick up a set of Sport Trainer plans from Wag-Aero.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Guest

RE: Anyone Fly A Homeade Plane?

Wed Apr 17, 2002 10:29 pm

I hate to be a kill-joy, but there are several things in aviation that really scare me. One of those is homebuilt aircraft. But hey, if you guys want to take that kind of risk, then I'm not going to stop you.

'Speed
 
PPGMD
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RE: Anyone Fly A Homeade Plane?

Thu Apr 18, 2002 4:24 am

Have you ever flown a Cub? If you have those were homebuilt, if you applly current standards.

There are many cases where I will trust a homebuilt before I ever touch a FBO plane.

The best thing is always the rule of thumb, don't fly with anyone that doesn't treat their airplane like a child, whether its certified or home built there are going to be problems.

Normalspeed: Go see how one is built and flies before you comment on it.

The FAA required 25-40hrs of testing on an aircraft before you are allowed to take up passengers, on top of it they are generally just as inspected as a certified airplane.

I have flown many times in expiermental/homebuilt aircraft, they provide the most bang for their owners buck. Everyone I have flown has their own distinctive personallity, even ones of the same model. Some will add spades, have extremely cool instrument panels, and many more options.

Personally I want to start building my own Rihn One Design.
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
Guest

RE: Anyone Fly A Homeade Plane?

Thu Apr 18, 2002 6:58 am

I have flown many times in expiermental/homebuilt aircraft, they provide the most bang for their owners buck. Everyone I have flown has their own distinctive personallity, even ones of the same model. Some will add spades, have extremely cool instrument panels, and many more options.

Like I said, If homebuilt airplanes 'float your boat,' then by all means - build and fly as many as you like. I'm just saying that there is a reason why you guys pay an 'arm and a leg' to insure homebuilts (that is if you can get anyone to insure them at all). I think aviation is a science of managing risk. And homebuilt airplanes is just somewhere that I'm not willing to go. But I admire homebuilts for their designs, and I think that they are cool airplanes. But you won't catch me building one. (Too much time away from golf, for one thing!)

The FAA required 25-40hrs of testing on an aircraft before you are allowed to take up passengers

Why do you think that is? You can kill yourself in considerably less time. Is that statement supposed to make me feel more secure?

'Speed
 
PPGMD
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RE: Anyone Fly A Homeade Plane?

Thu Apr 18, 2002 7:24 am

God Risk management,

Have a little fun, if risk management had its way the Wright brothers would have stayed on the ground. Lindburgh would have stayed at home, and the Air Force would have been happy to stay sub-sonic.

Why do you think that is? You can kill yourself in considerably less time. Is that statement supposed to make me feel more secure?

You should check out AC-90-89A it outlines all the tests that you have to go though. Its the exact same testing regmine that your Cessnas and Pipers have to do though before they are allowed to fly.

If you check it out, you will see that it isn't just build and go fly. You have to make a detailed record (with photos, and drawings) of your building process. It must be available upon request by the FAA at anytime.

On top of the flying time there are many more hours of ground tests. Last one that I was involved in had about 5 hours of time on the ground, running it up, adjusting the prop, taxing, testing the breaks, and finally expiermenting to how the ground roll will go for the first flight. Finally then did we even start the 25 hrs of flight testing. (25 hrs for certfied engine prop combinations 40 for non certifed)

In fact some of the homebuilt companies are going in the certfied market because they see that the kits for their aircraft are selling so well, why not sell the same thing to the general market that does not have the time to build it.

Do you ever plan to fly a warbird? Many of those are resorted (ie homebuilt) and are certified in the came catgory.
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
Guest

RE: Anyone Fly A Homeade Plane?

Thu Apr 18, 2002 11:11 am

PPGMD,

I checked out your profile, and those airplane that you have in your photo albums look beautiful (particularly that turboprop Glasair - I bet that thing really moves!). And if someone offered me a ride in either of those airplanes, I'd gladly accept. However, what I'm talking about is what could be termed "total exposure to risk." It's not likely that anything would happen on my flight. And, it may not be likely that those exact airplanes would be involved in an accident. But overall, homebuilt airplanes are more risky. Therefore, those who choose to fly them regularly expose themselves to greater risk. It's not as if Lindburgh made the dangerous crossing one time, and then decided to do it again, and again, and again, thus tempting fate. And as for breaking the sound barrier, those men were test pilots, knew the risks that they were taking, and accepted them. Some did not survive.

Now, understand that I'm not critical of taking risk. I know that we can not fly without doing so to some degree or another. But when I talk about "managing" risk, I mean not exposing yourself to excessive risk, or assuming risk uneccesarily. And for me, this means not owning and flying a homebuilt airplane.

But, if you are willing to assume the risks, then I say go for it. I'll admire your airplane when you pull it out of your hangar. But I won't be pulling out one of my own. (But I'd fly anywhere gaggle style in my V-Tail Bonanza)

'Speed
 
L-188
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RE: Anyone Fly A Homeade Plane?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 5:15 pm

Why would anybody in their right mind buy hull insurance on a homebuilt anyway?
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Guest

RE: Anyone Fly A Homeade Plane?

Fri Apr 19, 2002 9:46 pm

My personal experience with homebuilts has been limited to 3 different designs - one of which suffered a structural failure while I was flying it. It had a factory built "experimental" composite propellor and threw a blade, the resulting vibration broke the engine mounts. Luckily, the engine failed and shut down before falling from the airplane or I would have died. As it was, I had to make a forced landing in a cornfield. The airplane had amphibious floats which tangled up in the float braces and when everything was finished moving I was upside-down in a ball of metal and fabric. LUCKILY, I was able to walk a way from it.

Personally, I avoid homebuilts like the plague, although I have to admit that some, like the Lancair can be pretty compelling. (I get to Redmond, OR, where their factory is several times a month and I've been through the factory many times.) My main problem with homebuilts is one of quality control. Unfortuately, the old saying "Beauty is only skin deep" can be applied to many builder's aircraft.

Granted, if you take a proven design and a skilled builder, you will end up with something that is far superior to anything that you can buy out of Wichita. However, there are MANY caveats that you must be aware of...

1. The insurance market on certain high performance models has gotten very resticted recently and some of the companies have pulled out of the market entirely.

2. Builder's liability issues still remain. It was builder's liability issues that all but killed the US light aircraft industry for about 10 years. It took an act of congress to pass laws which limited a manufacturer's liability to a finite period. If you built a homebuilt you are the manufacturer and you have a certain liability if you sell the airplane to another party. Most people find it "legally" safer to turn the airplane into a non-flying static display after they've decide to stop flying it. You see a lot of them donated to museums for the tax write off.

If you want to build one for the pleasure of building one, go for it. A lot of people will find that the investment of time and money are hard to justify. It's been said that if you spend the same amount of time working a second job or working overtime as you would spend building you're dream plane you could buy a good used factory plane. (Me, I would never fly anything I built. Big grin )

Jetguy
 
DC10Tony
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RE: Anyone Fly A Homeade Plane?

Sat Apr 20, 2002 10:13 am

"Has anyone ever done it? How much time and money does it require?"

I did it often, when I was a kid, and it doesn't cost much money at all and takes about 2 minutes.

First, get a sheet of loose leaf paper...  Smile
 
planelover
Posts: 313
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RE: Anyone Fly A Homeade Plane?

Sat Apr 20, 2002 11:39 am

I have a friend who built a Quickie 2. It was a canard, but very odd looking. It had a VW engine too. He is currently building another plane (forget what it is). He has been building this one for quite some time now. Probably around 8 years. Allmost done though. Sorry, I don't know the costs for either plane.
I heard about some guys that put 2 engines in a Mark IV (looks a bit like a LongEze.) Instead of having the regular Lycoming IO360 they put 2 Suzuki (sp?) Swift engines in the same spot. They had counter rotating props--one for each engine. This way, they could turn one engine off and cruse on the other. Pretty cool!
I do love those Lancairs too!
Have fun you all,
PL

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