fly_yhm
Posts: 1647
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2000 1:12 pm

Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Tue Jun 11, 2002 11:41 pm

What is the best aircraft to train on and why?
Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
 
wietse
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RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Tue Jun 11, 2002 11:42 pm

Cessna 152, 172, 182, very forgiving airplane
Wietse de Graaf
 
Dufo
Posts: 796
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RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Wed Jun 12, 2002 12:09 am

Probably the 152 and 172.. why?
very durable landing gear (assumed you don't land nose wheel first)
carb-equipped engine
not many systems to learn
cheap to operate
high wing, conventional tail
pleasing aerodynamics

and so on, I like these two planes!

Jernej
I seriously think I just creamed my pants without any influence from any outside variables.
 
cosync
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RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Wed Jun 12, 2002 12:27 am

152 is the best.
cheap 2 seats and simple.
 
wilcharl
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RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Wed Jun 12, 2002 2:48 am

Im going to throw an arugment up here... that simple is not always best.... the 172 is easeier to fly then the 152 which is less stable and more like a kite... I would argue that its better to learn in less forgiving airplane where you reallly learn how to fly... My thought would be a grumman tiger... Why? Laminar flow wing for one.... castoring nose wheel... very smooth and stable in the air, it has a rudder that you actually have to use... it is solid as a rock with the laminated alumiium honeycomb setup, the wing spar is huge, i have seen one that was in a non fatal accidnet, and all that was left was the cockpit comparrtment... compared to cessna and piper products it is defenity a stronger airplane. it also makes you switch fuel tanks so you learn to manage fuel, the cockpit is very logical and good for instrument work... you have to be right on the #s on landing as it is not nearly as forgiving as a cessna or a piper... the laminar flow wing is fast and gives a very noticible stall...
 
Guest

RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Wed Jun 12, 2002 3:25 am

Wilcharl,
You bring up some very valid points. This is precisely the reason why, IMHO, the Cherokee series aren't my first choice in training aircraft - they are too forgiving and can give the neophyte pilot a false sense of security. Not all aircraft in the general aviation fleet are as forgiving.

The fact of the matter is that it doesn't really make any difference. People have learned to fly in just about any type of aircraft imaginable, from gliders to jets. Today, the vast majority of students learn to fly in Cessna 150s, Cessna 172s, Piper Cherokees, Piper Warriors, or Piper Tomahawks. However, there are many other suitable aircraft. There are those who will say that the "high-wing" trainers such as the Cessna 150, 152, or 172 are easier to fly and are more stable. Others will say that the "low-wing" aircraft such as the Pipers are better. The truth is that either type is acceptable. Each type has its particular "pros" and "cons". However, when all is said and done it doesn't really matter.
 
Sunken_Lunken
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2001 2:48 am

RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Wed Jun 12, 2002 5:32 am

I think finding a good flight instructor is far more important than the make and model of plane you fly. Each airplane has its own strengths, weaknesses, advantages, and disadvantages when compared to other planes.

But there is no substitute for good instruction!

Happy Flying!  Big thumbs up
 
JETPILOT
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RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Wed Jun 12, 2002 6:39 am

The best aircraft to train on is one that is safely maintained, available, priced affordably (club rate, wet/Dry), has suitable equipment to the type of training being given/reveived.

As far as which specific manufacturer/type? Toss the coin.

This isn't the Civ Av forum.... the "best" type questions are weak, and broad in scope.

What yo ushould be asking is what are the characteristics of each and from that info you can draw your own conclusions.

JET

 
Guest

RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Wed Jun 12, 2002 7:10 am

I'm going to have to vote for the Cessna 172, however, I don't think it really makes much of a difference.

'Speed
 
flightsimfreak
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RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Wed Jun 12, 2002 7:56 am

I have to say the Beech Skipper... It has large control surfaces, so it is very light to the touch, and very precise, especially in crosswind landings. Also, it's slow, so the studen't cannot get behind the airplane. It also is pretty dificult to stall due to the specially designed wing. All in all, I like this aircraft. Soon, though, I will be switching to a Cessna 172 as a post-training aircraft. Any questions about the Skipper are welcome, and no, I have never flown a Tomahawk or any other type of aircraft, so I cannot really compare the Skipper to others.
 
sllevin
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RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Wed Jun 12, 2002 8:17 am

I'll argue the case and say that you are best off learning on a tailwheel aircraft. It will really teach and ingrain good flying and rudder skills that are much harder to learn down the road. Besides, they you'll have your tailwheel signoff already...

Steve
 
JETPILOT
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RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Wed Jun 12, 2002 8:52 am

If you really want to name names...... The Tampico shines above all.

JET
 
wilcharl
Posts: 1151
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Wed Jun 12, 2002 9:12 am

To the skipper skipper...

where did you find a flgiht school using a skipper? thats been an a/c i always wanted to fly, but no one has it... everyone confuses it for a traumahawk but from what I have read it is a much better designed airplane and has the characteristics and quality feel of its older sisters.

A tampico is another good aircraft, very ergonomic setup, the trim is right by the throttle, so you can jocky the throttle and the trim with one hand without looking... Embry riddle used them as primary trainers priror to the cessna deal...

viva la france
 
flightsimfreak
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RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Wed Jun 12, 2002 11:43 am

I was going to write a long reply to that, but A.net didn't like it. I didn't have to look for a flight school that used skippers, the first one I went to did.
 
wilcharl
Posts: 1151
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RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Wed Jun 12, 2002 12:19 pm

dang i was hoping for a long reply about how beautiufl of a bird she was to fly oh well
 
POSITIVE RATE
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RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Wed Jun 12, 2002 2:39 pm

How about the GB110 Grob- they seem like the perfect trainer. Also the TB10 Tobago is a great a/c- although it may be a bit fast for initial training.
 
Guest

RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Wed Jun 12, 2002 2:57 pm

Actually, if I were King and could set all of the rules I would make it a requirement for everyone to do their initial training in a glider, then get some taildragger time, then on to whatever else they wanted to fly.
 
UA752
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 3:30 pm

RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Wed Jun 12, 2002 3:34 pm

Belanca Citabria...once you can fly a taildragger, you can fly most any nose wheel plane...plus it makes you a real stick and rudder pilot...
 
jhooper
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RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Wed Jun 12, 2002 3:42 pm

I think we're talking about high-wing vs. low-wing, a non-solvable debate. Anyway, it's a matter of preference, really. And as a new pilot, one probably doesn't have a preference. You'll probably find more high-wings (i.e. C152, C172) to rent. Personally, I'd go with the C152. Some schools will try to sell you on the C172, but it really isn't necessary until you get to the instrument rating (unless you're a big guy). C152s are pretty cost-effective and were really designed for training. Good luck!
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
flightsimfreak
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RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Fri Jun 14, 2002 12:00 am

It was going to be a long reply about what a beutiful bird the skipper is tfly, but A.net didn't take the post... sorry.
 
captaingomes
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RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Fri Jun 14, 2002 3:23 am

fly-yhm, I can only comment on the C152 and C172. The C152 was designed for training purposes mainly. It is a very light aircraft, very forgiving, but it has its limitations. If you are a big guy, and your instructor is a big guy/gal, then you wont like it. You wont be legal to take off with full fuel either on many days. The C152 is like a feather in the wind. Every little thing disturbs it, and it's a matter of you getting disturbed or not.

The C172 is usually about $15 an hour more to rent, but it is much more stable and more forgiving. It is more capable, and more comforting to fly. I started on the C152, and just moved up to the C172, and like it much better.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
Guest

RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Fri Jun 14, 2002 3:36 am

I've flown the Cherokee 140/160/180, Katana, C152, C150, and C172, and I must say the kite like C150/152 is the better one. It gets blown all over the place in even the slightest crosswind, so you really have to work the controls to get it down.
My personnal favorite would be an AT-6 Texan Big grin
 
duff
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RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Fri Jun 14, 2002 1:40 pm

After doing my initial training on the C152 then the Tomahawk I would go with the Tommy. Much more challenging to fly and keeps you on your toes.
 
TAA_Airbus
Posts: 491
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RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Sat Jun 15, 2002 11:12 am

Very personal question!!!!!!!

its like asking a girl if she likes the meat or the motion!!

I'll say a cessna, but Ive never flown a piper, so I cant give a valid answer, and Im sure its the same with most people in here.
 
flyingbronco05
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RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Mon Jun 17, 2002 11:06 am

The Piper Warrior (IMO) is the easiest to land over the 172. However, i like the 172 in maneuvers (climbing, steep turns) cause u can see below you.
Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
 
Guest

RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Mon Jun 24, 2002 5:36 am

The question for defining the "best" - is "for what purpose"...
There are many considerations which many of you dont realize, may I suggest a few things to help you make a better choice, and yourselves decide the "best single engine to train on"...
Be aware that I learned to fly in sailplanes at age 15, then in J3C "Cub" at age 16, got a PPL at age 17... CPL, IFR, Multi and CFI at age 18, university then Air Force as pilot, then airline (Pan American)... with GI Bill, even got myself a Learjet rating, and after 1991 bankruptcy of PanAm, went overseas with a few airlines as 747 captain, now in Argentina... I own an old ex-Paraguay Army L-21C (military version of a Super Cub PA18-135) which only has a VHF communication radio and a transponder (no VHF nav equipment)... I use that aircraft to tow gliders in the Andes, or tow banners along the beaches, and teach my boy to fly, he is only 12...
xxx
I believe the best aircraft to learn to fly with - for the purpose of only be a Private Pilot, is the aircraft you will be likely to rent for the pleasure flying you intend to do... acquire a decent level of experience with that type... Maybe the C150 is a good trainer, and later, transition to the C-172 if you intend to carry wife and kids... maybe C182 to accommodate the weight of your mother in law, if applicable... These airplanes are quite similar...
xxx
If you are looking at a pilot career, here the best aircraft is quite different, and I would recommend "the most inexpensive aircraft possible" to log flying time, since flying time and experience are basis for higher licenses and qualifications, and "minimum hours" may be a yardstick for some pilot jobs you will apply for... With my little L-21, a taildragger, half as expensive as what I see the best prices advertised, operating from a little grassy aeroclub field, no control tower (thereby no delay on the ground), my plane is used to solo students with the only concern of teaching "basics" and this is often achieved with a mere 10 to 12 hours of dual instruction only... at busy tower controlled airports where you are number 4 for takeoff, can never be achieved... and even though it is a fixed gear aircraft, all trainees learn as "their bible" to say "gear down - landing check" when turning base for landing...
xxx
Cross country requirements... it is hours, so from point A to B, the slower plane will be a further bonus (in addition that it is less expensive per hour)...
xxx
Good point about taildraggers, learn to fly one first, if you use a tricycle gear aircraft a transition for taildraggers will be much longer and costly... People who learned to fly a little taildragger, often check out in a tricycle aircraft in as little as 2 to 3 hours of dual... the opposite is often 10 hours dual, or more...
xxx
Now when you come closer to the CPL and Instrument Rating... comes the time to use an aircraft that is well equipped, and higher performance as well, and valid ground instruction is a help to decrease the need for extra dual...
I do not fly many "modern single engine airplanes" but one that has impressed me by all means is the SIAI-Marchetti SF-260, fully acrobatic and fast plane, if you are in the USA, I dont know if it is popular there, but it is in Europe and South America as an advanced trainer...
xxx
Get your CFI ratings immediately after passing CPL and Instrument Rating, as the required maneuvers are still fresh in your mind... same for Multiengine, do the CFI-Multi immediately after completing the rating... As a qualified CFI, you will be able to survive until you get the posting you wish to have as pilot.
xxx
If you need "jet time" do it at the time you train for the ATPL, and by all means do it with a Cessna Citation 500, a simple aircraft, yet, it is a "jet"...
You may then be hired as a co-pilot in that aircraft for a while, before you have logged the hours needed to be hired by an airline...
xxx
I often am on the board of pilots selecting new hires for my airline, and while applicants boast hours of retractable gear, constant speed propellers, and list some 20 different types of single engine aircraft and hours flown in each, we are only interested in the total time - single engine - multi engine, regardless of type flown, 1 hour in a Citabria or 1 hour in a Marchetti are both same... Some of my colleagues dont even know what the difference is with a PA-28 or a C-185. These applicants will be trained to be first officers on 737 initially,
(we call the 737 the "light twin" in our airline)... so we much prefer someone with a "jet aircraft" qualification... Citation is OK...
xxx
Turbine time vs. jet time... dont confuse the two... a turboprop aircraft (which has a propeller) actually flies much like any other propeller aircraft, except obviously in power and performance, but does little to "prepare" pilot trainees to a jet pilot transition, the two types of airplanes have different handling characteristics. As an example, jets dont have propeller "P factor", the stall speed of a jet "power ON or power OFF is the same", not so in reciprocating or turbine powered propeller aircraft...
xxx
Final advice then: to start "basic" pilot training, select a little airfield outside busy areas, with inexpensive airplanes... when building time and experience later for higher qualifications, you have then the time to learn about ATC, proper radio procedures... and remember, study academics... an instructor should help you select the subject areas, and there are excellent publications or videos which can help you... shorten the amount of flight instruction you will require to reach that PPL, and if applicable, higher qualifications...
xxx
Good luck to you Fly Yhm, and the others who are interessed in this subject.
(s) Skipper
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Tue Jun 25, 2002 2:48 am

Wow skipper, great reply! Fly_yhm, what have you decided you will be doing? Are you flying now? Where are you flying out of?
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
dragogoalie
Posts: 1172
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RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Wed Jun 26, 2002 2:38 am

I think that training should be done in more than one airplane. I started my training in a Piper Warrior, did about 30 hours in that, and now I'm finishing up in a 152. I like the warrior much better, but you won't always be able to rent a warrior. Not to mention they handle very differently in flight. Especially in stalls. The warrior is almost (if not completely) impossible to spin. That makes for very docile stalling. But when I first stalled the 152 I almost messed myself when the wing dropped. Landings and takeoffs are very much the same, unless you're talking softfield. The warrior since the wings are closer to the ground get off in ground effect easier than the cessna, which makes it easier to leave ground effect before reaching a fast enough airspeed, whereas the cessna has less of this problem because the wings are higher. I think training should be given in more than one planes, and they shouldent be similar planes either, just to expose the pilot that not all planes fly the same. Yes the basics are the same, but not everything. To me planning a flight (takeoff and landing ground roll, climb speed, endurance, etc.) was very easy in the piper POH. YOu just use the graphs and follow the lines, but I didn't know what to do when I first saw the charts for the 152. My .02 cents

--dragogoalie-#88--
Formerly known as Jap. Srsly. AUSTRALIA: 2 days!
 
IndianGuy
Posts: 3126
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2000 3:14 pm

RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Thu Jun 27, 2002 12:09 am

How about the Piper Cub PA-180? Seems pretty decent.
 
MagicMan_841
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2002 8:12 am

RE: Best Single Engine Aircraft To Train On?

Thu Jun 27, 2002 5:13 am

I own/train on a 1968 Cessna 150. They're the best trainers around, really simple, built like army tanks. They'll take just about anything and land anywhere. They also are very cheap to operate and to maintain. You may want to try something bigger sometimes, though, like Cessna 172s or low wing Pipers like the Cherokee. I think that all airplanes have their goods and bads, but Cessna 150s were designed with the student in minds and are the best training airplanes you can get, in my opinion, of course.

hope this helps

M@g!¢

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