Tripleseven
Topic Author
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Heat-When Would An Airport Shutdown?

Sat Jun 22, 2002 8:45 am

I'm taking the PHX this weekend, and it occurs to me that mid-day flights are taking off in temps as high as 110 F+. Is there a point that it's just too hot to fly, thus effectively shutting the airport down?

I thought I remembered hearing there was a point that the onboard computer couldn't calculate take-off thrust at a certain temp.
 
PPGMD
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RE: Heat-When Would An Airport Shutdown?

Sat Jun 22, 2002 9:00 am

It isn't so much the heat put the density altiitude as most airports that I know of. I remember just last weekend the local elevation is 25ft, but the denisty alititude was 1,700ft, doesn't make that much of a diffrence here but in some of the areas that are higher up that can make a huge diffrence.
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
Guest

RE: Heat-When Would An Airport Shutdown?

Sat Jun 22, 2002 9:01 am

I seem to remember the Las Vegas shutting down, due to temperature, at 119F back in the late 70's. On the stuff that I fly, we're good to 50C or 122F.
Jetguy
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Heat-When Would An Airport Shutdown?

Sat Jun 22, 2002 9:08 am

The item you're referring to is MOT, or maximum operating temperature....

It varies with aircraft type.... On the 737-200 with JT8D-9, PHX is 122F. Newer 737 variants run up to 126F.

LAS went through a real hot spell back in 1979, or 1980, and may well have hit MOT there (may be different values than PHX). I know PHX busted it it 6-7 years ago, and some Pratt-powered aircraft diverted to cooler climes (relatively speaking.)
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: Heat-When Would An Airport Shutdown?

Sat Jun 22, 2002 10:01 am

PHX shut down in 1997 one day when the temperature hit 122. TUS was only 117 so remained operational. Of course TUS has a longer runway. Still pretty interesting to see a DC-9-80 using 10000 feet to get into the air.

PHX temperatures "as high as 110"? That's cute. That is a fairly normal temperature in PHX for the next 3 months.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
Guest

RE: Heat-When Would An Airport Shutdown?

Sat Jun 22, 2002 12:11 pm

Back when the LAS airport shut down because of the temperature, I can remember listening to the radio on the way home from the airport - the DJ was giving the weather forecast and said that the temperature at McCarren International was 119 degrees and the wind was out of the south at 5 mph so the windchill factor was 115F. (Maybe you had to have been there, but I thought it was pretty funny at the time.)
 
tt737fo
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RE: Heat-When Would An Airport Shutdown?

Sat Jun 22, 2002 12:55 pm

I concur, I seem to recall that for the -200 the temp limit is in the neighborhood of 120.

Hottest I have ever seen was El Centro in August '90--124F. We did not fly that day for several reasons. F18 Canopy, once closed would have cooked us. The tarmac was even hotter, and we didn't want to risk needless heat cases with our ground crews.

It was hotter that day in El Centro than any day I remember in the Gulf War.
 
sccutler
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RE: Heat-When Would An Airport Shutdown?

Sat Jun 22, 2002 12:57 pm

I recall the day in June, 1990 when my wife and I were moving from LA (Fullerton, actually) back home to Dallas, driving two cars; it was 122 or 123 in PHX as we drove through, and for a time, many flights were ancelled or delayed; at the time, my understanding was that the big problem was not that the aircraft were unable to fly and fly safely, but rather, that the POH (Pillot's Operating Handbook) for the various aircraft did not contain data for the higher temps and, therefore, the flights could not be operated within compliance with the book. It was also reported that Boeing, McD and others were faxing amendments to the POH's to the various airlines so the books could be officially updated, and the flights could legally operate.

It was HOT!

But my 1976 ElDorado, with a radiator as big as a bed, ran just fine, and the AC kept me quite comfy.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
L-188
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RE: Heat-When Would An Airport Shutdown?

Sat Jun 22, 2002 4:18 pm

It wouldn't be the airport shutting down.

It would be the airlines that didn't pay Boeing or Airbus the extra money for operating data that didn't cover operations in that temperature range not being able to fly their aircraft.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
ThirtyEcho
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RE: Heat-When Would An Airport Shutdown?

Sun Jun 23, 2002 6:07 am

Bear in mind that these temps are OAT on the runway and not some reading made at the local TV station. I was aboard a WN 737 at Dallas Love a few years ago and the OAT on the taxiway was at Death Valley levels: 127F. We returned to the apron to offload fuel and then took off. The density altitude must have been tremendous.
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: Heat-When Would An Airport Shutdown?

Sun Jun 23, 2002 10:11 am

TT737FO. El Centro doesn't count. It's always 124F with 100% humidity there in the summer. At least before 1000. Then it starts to get warm.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
babaero
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Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 4:39 am

RE: Heat-When Would An Airport Shutdown?

Sun Jun 23, 2002 5:36 pm

In Bahrain the temp is always around 45 to 47 in summer.

Midday 767 flight often had to return to blocks due temp to hot.

56 often recorded
 
brons2
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RE: Heat-When Would An Airport Shutdown?

Sat Jun 29, 2002 3:09 am

Assuming the runway is long enough to compensate for the lack of density and therefore lift, are there other issues keeping planes from flying?
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
Guest

RE: Heat-When Would An Airport Shutdown?

Sat Jun 29, 2002 7:44 am

Yes there are other limits for airplanes... runway limit is one, climb limit is the other... reduce the takeoff weight to be able a certain climb gradient...
The airplanes produced by Boeing are generally limited to temperatures of +50 C to -56 C for takeoff at sea level elevations...
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