mhsieh
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Delta MD11 Why No PIPs?

Sat Aug 03, 2002 8:53 am

Noticed that Delta's MD11 does not have the drooping ailerons with takeoff flap extension which is part of the PIPs offerd by Douglas (free of charge??)
Why didn't Delta's MD-11s get retrofitted??
 
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DL_Mech
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RE: Delta MD11 Why No PIPs?

Sun Aug 04, 2002 9:43 am

DLs' MD-11's do have the PIP.....also including Phase III PW4460's, new flap trailing edge wedges and vertically mounted windshield wipers......
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
mhsieh
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RE: Delta MD11 Why No PIPs?

Sun Aug 04, 2002 2:07 pm

What about droop ailerons on take-off? I didn't see that on DL's MD11 ....
 
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DL_Mech
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RE: Delta MD11 Why No PIPs?

Sun Aug 04, 2002 9:48 pm

Hey Mhsieh.....I did a little research on this and found what was basically said by MD11Nut and Boomer on your last post about this ( http://www.airliners.net/discussions/tech_ops/read.main/2126/6/ ).

The drooped ailerons (inboard and outboard) are part of an A1 package to increase MTOW to 630k. They droop only when flaps are set to a takeoff setting, and the nose gear air/ground switch is made. Normal droop is 0 deg. inboard / 4 deg. outboard with the flaps up (I believe the 4 deg. outboard was part of the PIP). When the nose is compressed and flaps are set to takeoff, flaps droop 11.5 deg. inboard and 15 deg. outboard.

Deltas' MD-11's are rated at 625k, and do not have the A1 package (they do have the 4 deg. outboard droop). From my understanding, not all MD-11's can get the A1 mod, so DL probably keeps them all the same for commonality purposes. Ships 813-815 are quite a bit different from the rest (look at the flap canoe fairings), so they are probably eligible.

BTW- all of the World MD-11's that we work on (except N279WA) have the A-1 mod.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
mhsieh
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RE: Delta MD11 Why No PIPs?

Mon Aug 05, 2002 3:06 am

Thanks a lot DL Mech for your reply...
BTW, what's Delta's plan with the MD-11 now they've got the 777...seems to me that MD-11 is replaceable with 777. Is DL gonna get more 777??
 
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DL_Mech
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RE: Delta MD11 Why No PIPs?

Mon Aug 05, 2002 7:51 am

From what I hear, the leased MD-11's (7?) have a 30 year lease (starting in 1992) with very unfavorable penalties breaking that lease. Boeing has approached DL about replacing them with 777's, but no deal was struck without DL losing money.......So, I don't think the MD's are going anywhere (at least some of them)...............
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
mhsieh
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RE: Delta MD11 Why No PIPs?

Tue Aug 06, 2002 1:32 am

How's the MD-11 from maintenance perspective? Are they more diificult and troublesome compared to other Boeing or the MD80/90??
 
papatango
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RE: Delta MD11 Why No PIPs?

Tue Aug 06, 2002 7:21 am


Why in the world would anyone lease an airplane for 30 years? I can not believe Delta is that DUMB!
 
DeltaSFO
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RE: Delta MD11 Why No PIPs?

Tue Aug 06, 2002 8:02 am

DL_Mech....

According to DAL's 2001 annual report the leased MD-11s depart in 2004. You are however correct that the penalties for early termination of the lease were such that it would be ridiculously stupid to do so.

By the end of 2005 Delta should be rid of all MD-11s.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
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DL_Mech
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RE: Delta MD11 Why No PIPs?

Tue Aug 06, 2002 9:38 am

Mhsieh....I'm not the MD-11 Cheerleader that FDXMech is, so I'll leave it at that. I'm more of an L-1011 fan......

DeltaSFO.....Check the lease termination dates on the Tech/Ops section (Aircraft Fleet Listing) of the DeltaNet.....806 and 811 terminate in 2017.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
DeltaSFO
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RE: Delta MD11 Why No PIPs?

Tue Aug 06, 2002 11:10 am

Wow, DL_Mech.... I've spent all kinds of time on that Aircraft Info section and never really paid attention to the lease termination dates. There must be some kind of early out clause because I don't think that a) airlines, especially the more financially healthy ones such as Delta, commit outright to leases that long and b) they probably wouldn't mention that in their annual report if it weren't true.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
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DL_Mech
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RE: Delta MD11 Leases

Tue Aug 06, 2002 9:27 pm

I don't know if it's true or not, but the 25 year lease was part of the deal that DL made with MDC giving them $6 million each for their DC-9-32's. I guess it's up to Boeing to break the lease and sell more 777's. I'm sure UPS wants those MD-11's for their freighter operation.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
seagull
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RE: Delta MD11 Why No PIPs?

Wed Aug 07, 2002 3:05 am

The deflected aileron package is not part of the 630,500 pound takeoff package. The deflected ailerons do allow higher takeoff weights when the takeoff is performance (not structurally) limited, but they have been plagued with reliability problems. FedEx is currently deactivating the deflected ailerons as the problems have outweighed their advantages.

The MD-11 has been, overall, reliable for FedEx.
 
FDXmech
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RE: Delta MD11 Why No PIPs?

Thu Aug 08, 2002 4:55 am

Seagull: FedEx is currently deactivating the deflected ailerons as the problems have outweighed their advantages.

When did this come about? Due to my shift and the EWR's MD11 schedule, I hardly see and rarely work the MD11 anymore. But nonetheless this is news to me.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
seagull
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RE: Delta MD11 Why No PIPs?

Thu Aug 08, 2002 4:07 pm

Decision was reached about 2 months ago, be complete by 15AUG last I heard.

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