Topic Author
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2000 8:47 pm

Database Validity

Tue Aug 06, 2002 5:00 pm

Hi guys,

does anybody of you here have an idea about the regulations concerning the requirments of validity of a nav database?

You can perfectly fly an aircraft with an out-of date database. Is it than the pilot's responsability to check all the waypoints three times or is it legally forbidden than to use the database?


RE: Database Validity

Tue Aug 06, 2002 5:26 pm

Dear Airbuspilot -
The database may be required by your operation's general operations manual, which is a regulatory document approved by your aviation authority... Your general operations manual is part of your operating certificate... and your operating certificate might be invalid if you operate without updated database. Obviously you could operate your aircraft by checking coordinates for all the enroute waypoints... but whether it is legal for your operation I do not know. With my airline it would be illegal... we get revisions every 30 days if I remember well. Our airplanes which are off-base can operate with expired database for a maximum of 3 days, provided that the crew verifies the routing from the CFP and pertinent Notams. If some discrepancies exist on a given route, the dispatch office would release the flight and advise the crew that there are updates required for the routing...
Tot ziens, bon vol...  Smile/happy/getting dizzy (s) Skipper
Posts: 2398
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2001 5:39 am

RE: Database Validity

Tue Aug 06, 2002 11:53 pm

I believe to maintain IFR GPS you must have an updated database.

But if its expired you can use it as a VFR GPS, some VFR GPSs have databases that are ages old because the owner see no need to update them.
At worst, you screw up and die.

RE: Database Validity

Wed Aug 07, 2002 1:46 am

Dear PPGMD -
This question was asked by Erasmus and dealt obviously with use of database with airplane(s) in airline environment... I gather your experience is with private airplane operations, VFR etc... which does not apply... I assume you are in the USA... Your statement may be correct for operations conducted under FAR 91... but definitely not for FAR 121 as would be applicable there...
(s) Skipper
Posts: 2398
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2001 5:39 am

RE: Database Validity

Wed Aug 07, 2002 2:00 am

Yes since my expierence is all Part 91, I have no clue about Part 121, 135 (other than surface reading I have done of the FARs).
At worst, you screw up and die.
Posts: 1797
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 3:41 pm

RE: Database Validity

Wed Aug 07, 2002 6:19 pm

I tought GPS navigation can only be used as a help to the aircraft system's navigation and not as a primary navigation tool?? is this GPS panel we see in the cockpit of airliners a primary navigation tool?

Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:46 am

RE: Database Validity

Wed Aug 07, 2002 11:46 pm

Our rules are if the database is out of date we can use it for enroute navigation if we back it up with current enroute charts. It is not to be used for terminal area navigation/approaches without a current database. The database is to be updated "as soon as practical" whatever you interpret that to mean.
Posts: 256
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:46 pm

RE: Database Validity

Thu Aug 08, 2002 4:34 am

Hi B747Skipper,

You said : "This question was asked by Erasmus"

I would like to draw your attention to the fact that it was asked by Airbuspilot and not by me!
(And I am not Airbuspilot, BTW)



RE: Database Validity

Thu Aug 08, 2002 4:47 am

Dear Erasmus -
Call it old age dyslexia... we need good guys like you to keep us old farts in line with the facts...  Wink/being sarcastic
I know you want your seniority, Erasmus, but hell, please keep your foot off my oxygen hose !!!
Avec plaisir -
(s) Skipper
Posts: 1788
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2001 10:34 am

RE: Database Validity

Thu Aug 08, 2002 6:39 am

The answer is YES, GPS can be used as a primary navigation aid for long overwater flights. However, if it is to be used in the airway route structure over land, or in the terminal area/approaches, a currect data base MUST be installed for IFR flight, part(s) 91, 121, 125, 135, and in accordance with the carriers operations specifications.

RE: Database Validity

Thu Aug 08, 2002 6:58 am

What 411A mentioned is along the lines I described...
In our 747s we have triple INS update by two GPS, so no database is really needed, but in our A340s, they require the data base - beyond my IQ...
Again, if in doubt consult your airline's GOM for what can be done... for private flying (USA part 91) see what is required...
(s) Skipper

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