ryu2
Posts: 1546
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2002 8:18 am

What Parts Of The World Have No ATC Radar Coverage

Thu Aug 22, 2002 9:30 am

Besides the oceans (of course)  Smile, where in the world is there no ATC RADAR coverage?

Eg, which parts above N. America, S. America, Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia, Antarctica is there no monitoring by ATC RADAR, and pilots have to give position reports by the radio?

Just curious! Thanks!
 
david b.
Posts: 2894
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:18 pm

RE: What Parts Of The World Have No ATC Radar Coverage

Thu Aug 22, 2002 9:42 am

Small parts of the US I assume in Navada and near Idaho. Northern Canada?
The poles, outback of Aus. Western and Northern part of China. I heard a lot of SA but Im not sure. Pilots have to give position reports using HF radio or VHF. I heard once that a pilot gave a wrong position. The plane crashed and it took days for them to be found. Happened in SA.
Also there is no radar coverage in almost all of Africa and Siberia.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
ismangun
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 6:35 pm

RE: What Parts Of The World Have No ATC Radar Coverage

Thu Aug 22, 2002 10:01 am

Speaking of Siberia, I read an article about Aeroflot ops to Siberia in Flying Mag some times ago. The cockpit crews consist of Captain, F/O, F/E, Radio Operator, and a Navigator. What a crew composition!

regards,

ismangun.
If it's an Airbus, I'll take the bus
 
david b.
Posts: 2894
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:18 pm

RE: What Parts Of The World Have No ATC Radar Coverage

Thu Aug 22, 2002 10:23 am

Those are very old aircraft. All new aircraft use INS and GPS so there is no use for a navigator or a radio operator. F/E have been eliminated and replaced with advance flight control computers. Old aircraft used all 5. Not only in Russia but the combo was used for oceanic crossings as well.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
ismangun
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 6:35 pm

RE: What Parts Of The World Have No ATC Radar Coverage

Thu Aug 22, 2002 10:35 am

Yes, indeed. The writer jumpseated in Aeroflot's 757 (or 767?) from New York to Moscow. Then he jumpseated again in a russian plane to siberia with those crew compo. I believe he wrotes the article sometimes in near 2000s.

regards,

ismangun.
If it's an Airbus, I'll take the bus
 
Guest

RE: What Parts Of The World Have No ATC Radar Coverage

Thu Aug 22, 2002 1:37 pm

North America generally has good radar coverage, entire USA, Southern part of Canada and Mexico/Carribean...
South America has rather poor coverage in its "Northern" parts... Brazil has full coverage drom the NE corner through Southern borders, but poor over the "Amazon basin"... Southern South America has good coverage, Chile, Argentina, Uruguay are excellent...
Africa is ... do we need to say what... inexistant except South Africa...
Europe, full coverage except some areas of Balkans... European Russia and Ukraine has full coverage...
Middle East, poor, except Saudi Arabia, and the "Gulf Area - UAE - Oman"...
Asia, poor everywhere, except Japan, South Korea and Taiwan...
Australia, good coverage from NE through South...
Did I forget any corner of the planet...???
(s) Skipper
 
POSITIVE RATE
Posts: 2121
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2001 11:31 am

RE: What Parts Of The World Have No ATC Radar Coverage

Thu Aug 22, 2002 5:30 pm

Outback Australia has no radar coverage at all. This covers a large portion of the country- outback South Australia/Northern Territory/Northern Queensland/half of Tasmania and most of WA.
 
ryu2
Posts: 1546
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2002 8:18 am

RE: What Parts Of The World Have No ATC Radar Cove

Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:04 pm

Thanks all!

Question for Ismangun: Does Indonesia not have radar coverage over the whole country? Or is it only in a few areas (biggest islands)?
 
9V-SVA
Posts: 1747
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 3:54 pm

RE: What Parts Of The World Have No ATC Radar Coverage

Fri Aug 23, 2002 5:03 pm

B747skipper, you forgot Singapore and Malaysia.

9V-SVA
9V-SVA | B772ER
 
ismangun
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 6:35 pm

RE: What Parts Of The World Have No ATC Radar Coverage

Fri Aug 23, 2002 6:25 pm

Ryu2:
Most of Indonesia's area are covered by Radar Service, (at least western part of it), but controllers tend quite lazy in providing adequate service. They still want us to give position reports and estimates. They also not quite organized among themselves.

Regards,

Ismangun.
If it's an Airbus, I'll take the bus
 
Sonic
Posts: 1505
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2000 3:10 am

RE: What Parts Of The World Have No ATC Radar Coverage

Sat Aug 24, 2002 4:09 am

Il-62 also uses all five crewmembers, but I think western planes of the same time already had 3 crewmembers.
 
LZ-TLT
Posts: 427
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:34 am

RE: What Parts Of The World Have No ATC Radar Coverage

Sat Aug 24, 2002 5:31 am

I wonder how nobody mentioned the atlantic routes...radar coverage is even nowadays thin to nonexistent and the ATC's have to use procedural control to cope with the traffic.

This was also the reason why the Il-62 has a crew of five - it was built primary for transpolar/transatlantic/transsiberian flights, and as well as on the atlantic routes as in siberia navaids are almost not present. And, remember, it was designed in the mid-60's, so definitively INS was NOT an option for navigation. The DC-8's/B-707's of these years had a built-in sixtant for navigation on such routes, and there was a rule that either one of the crewmembers must hold a full navigator license or there must me an extra navigator onboard when flying transpolar routes for example.

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