jgore
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Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Thu Nov 28, 2002 1:09 pm

Not even on a.net, but also in many books I saw many asian pilots were wearing gloves during flight operations.

Why is it?.
Maybe they produce a lot of perspiration on their hands ?


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Jgore  Smile
 
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Thu Nov 28, 2002 2:10 pm

Hi Jgore ,

This has already been discussed in one post in the civil ops . The reason behind this is that white is the symbol of purity and is very widely used in the south east asian countries as a good luck charm .

Regards
 
jgore
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Thu Nov 28, 2002 2:52 pm

Thank you very much.
I'll do a search about that.

Jgore  Smile
 
azeem
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Thu Nov 28, 2002 6:55 pm

Indian_flyboy is right. Its Japenese culture. Not sure about other south asian countries. In Japan, pilots, drivers etc wear white gloves.

- Azeem
 
n949wp
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Thu Nov 28, 2002 9:01 pm

It IS largely a Japanese custom. Don't see much white gloves outside of Japan.

'949
 
swissgabe
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Thu Dec 05, 2002 10:42 pm

I would call it Japanese Pilots.
In Korea they might also do it but I haven't seen that in the airline industry, only taxi and bus drivers.
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delta-flyer
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Fri Dec 06, 2002 10:45 am

I once heard that the old style pushbutton switches can get very hot -- but then all pilots would be wearing gloves, unless the Japanese have more sensitive fingers.

Pete  Smile
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SAS-A321
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:38 pm

You might see it on other airlines if they fly a royal or other important person.
It's Scandinavian
 
aa61hvy
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:10 am

I havent seen CX pilots wear gloves.
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gotAirbus
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Tue Dec 10, 2002 10:01 am

That's because CX pilots are Chinese or European ...we do not see our pilots handling planes (Chinese taxi drivers too) with white gloves than more Japanese/Korean people do get "obsessed" with symbols of purity and the like.

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411A
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Wed Dec 18, 2002 12:19 am

Gloves...and not just white.
Years ago was assigned an aircraft PC (sim not yet approved) in a Lockheed TriStar. The aircraft was just out of 'D' check and located in Jeddah, and the day was very hot...42C.
During maintenance, the nosewheel tiller had been painted with the shinyest of black paint. This resulted in not only it being very hot, but slippery as well.
A golf glove on the left hand saved the day and has been used by yours truly ever since.

 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Wed Dec 18, 2002 10:13 am

I flew with a Captain just 3 days ago that wore white gloves, although only until top of climb, and from top of descent to after landing. Not sure why. Looks silly, plus Boeing have designed each knob on the MCP panel to have a different feel to it with different shapes and different grooves. This is to give a distinction between them, especially when there may be smoke in the cockpit and you may have to feel your way around. Wearing gloves makes it all harder in my opinion. I imagine trying to type an e-mail wearing gloves. It just wouldn't work.
 
Herman
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Wed Dec 18, 2002 11:05 pm

Apparently, they think its professionalism.

 Smokin cool
 
bravo45
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Fri Dec 20, 2002 9:29 am

Other than the "sign of good luck" thing, is there any thing else that the gloves help? Secondly are their any special pilot gloves? I have seen a PIA 747 pilot and First officer in the same cockpit using the gloves (weren't as white as in the pictures above and besides the sign of good luck is not the case in Pakistan). I was curious too and wanted to ask, but forgot it as I got absorbed in the on going events.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:32 pm

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 13):
Other than the "sign of good luck" thing, is there any thing else that the gloves help

Could it also be Hygenic point of view of the Individuals & better grip.
regds
MEL
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zeke
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:20 pm

Quoting AA61hvy (Reply 8):
I havent seen CX pilots wear gloves.



Quoting Cx flyboy (Reply 11):
I flew with a Captain just 3 days ago that wore white gloves, although only until top of climb, and from top of descent to after landing. Not sure why. Looks silly, plus Boeing have designed each knob on the MCP panel to have a different feel to it with different shapes and different grooves. This is to give a distinction between them, especially when there may be smoke in the cockpit and you may have to feel your way around. Wearing gloves makes it all harder in my opinion. I imagine trying to type an e-mail wearing gloves. It just wouldn't work.

Few about, some ex-military chaps just never left their previous life, others do it on medical advice becuase of the risk or disposition to skin cancer.
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Jetlagged
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:21 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 15):
Few about, some ex-military chaps just never left their previous life, others do it on medical advice becuase of the risk or disposition to skin cancer.

It used to be pretty much standard to wear flying gloves in the RAF. Not the enormous gauntlets of WW1, they are thin, soft and flexible leather gloves, designed for maximum feel. The ones in the photo look more like something you would wear for a round of golf. The main reason is that the military fly war planes in war situations, so may need to operate controls which are hot, or even burning. They also provide a sure grip when the palms are sweaty. You can also right "LEFT" and "RIGHT" on them in case you get easily confused.  Smile

Not normal encountered on a civil airliner, but old habits die hard for some.
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
 
Blackbird
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:01 am

Well, as one member here said, it's got to do with the fact that white is often in asian cultures viewed as a symbol of purity. I remember hearing at Buddhist funerals, everybody wears white... not black.

Also the Japanese (as in from Japan) are OBSESSED with cleanliness (not that that's a bad thing, but it is notable)

Andrea K
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:42 am

Quoting Cx flyboy (Reply 11):
Looks silly, plus Boeing have designed each knob on the MCP panel to have a different feel to it with different shapes and different grooves. This is to give a distinction between them, especially when there may be smoke in the cockpit and you may have to feel your way around. Wearing gloves makes it all harder in my opinion. I imagine trying to type an e-mail wearing gloves. It just wouldn't work.

As Jetlagged mentions, flying gloves are thin enough to give good tactile sensation. They also help you not slip. Not that the latter is a big problem in airliner ops.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:17 am

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 17):
Also the Japanese (as in from Japan) are OBSESSED with cleanliness (not that that's a bad thing, but it is notable)

Is there another kind of Japanese? In their case I understand it's more about not transferring their germs so others can pick them up, not just simply avoiding other people's germs. The first time I saw people in Tokyo wearing masks I assumed it was because of polution, but a local told me it was probably because they had a cold. You keep your germs to yourself in other words.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 18):
They also help you not slip. Not that the latter is a big problem in airliner ops.

Only if you lose your grip on your glass in the bar after the flight.
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
 
KELPkid
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:20 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 14):
Could it also be Hygenic point of view of the Individuals & better grip.
regds
MEL

Well, from my high school and college days in the marching band and the ROTC colorguard, white, especially on gloves, is an extremely hard color to keep clean. I probably averaged about 1 pair of gloves a month...

The band ones were pretty cool, though. They were 100% cotton and had these tiny little rubber dots on the inside of the fingers and on the palm that improved your grip  Smile I wonder if Japanese pilots use that style of gloves...
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:29 am

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 19):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 18):
They also help you not slip. Not that the latter is a big problem in airliner ops.

Only if you lose your grip on your glass in the bar after the flight.

My god, the humanity!

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 19):
Is there another kind of Japanese?

The ones in cartoons. Big grin Seriously though, I have two friends with Japanese wives. Neither girl has ever lived in Japan for more than a few months. But they most definitely see themselves as Japanese. And yes, they have a very different outlook on life.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 20):
Well, from my high school and college days in the marching band and the ROTC colorguard, white, especially on gloves, is an extremely hard color to keep clean. I probably averaged about 1 pair of gloves a month

I feel your pain. The French Foreign Legion has white hats for their dress uniforms. The basic rule is: never touch the white part. Thankfully the brim is black.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:02 am

Cockpits can be extremely manky. Often I don't understand the pilots. It is them whio have to sit for 8+ hours in there, I don't understand why they leave the cockpits so messy, with food crumbs etc. thrown all over the place. I know some pilots, who bring a desinfectant spray or desinfectant wipes and wipe all swiches, armrests and controls with them when they take over an aircraft.

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 16):
Few about, some ex-military chaps just never left their previous life, others do it on medical advice becuase of the risk or disposition to skin cancer.

It used to be pretty much standard to wear flying gloves in the RAF. Not the enormous gauntlets of WW1, they are thin, soft and flexible leather gloves, designed for maximum feel. The ones in the photo look more like something you would wear for a round of golf. The main reason is that the military fly war planes in war situations, so may need to operate controls which are hot, or even burning. They also provide a sure grip when the palms are sweaty. You can also right "LEFT" and "RIGHT" on them in case you get easily confused. Smile

Not normal encountered on a civil airliner, but old habits die hard for some.

In the military there is another reason: In combat the aircraft might catch fire and then it is advisable to have as little skin as possible exposed to the flames. Thus the flight suit is made out of a fire retardant material (Nomex today, in WW2 it used to be leather or wool). The oxygen mask also has a secondary purpose to protect the face (in WW2 the pilots wore their goggles inside an enclosed cockpit. Some fighters had a fuel tank between the engine and the cockpit. Shot down pilots were often terribly disconfigured by burns.

Jan
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:34 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 22):
Cockpits can be extremely manky. Often I don't understand the pilots. It is them whio have to sit for 8+ hours in there, I don't understand why they leave the cockpits so messy, with food crumbs etc. thrown all over the place. I know some pilots, who bring a desinfectant spray or desinfectant wipes and wipe all swiches, armrests and controls with them when they take over an aircraft.

I can well imagine it. The problem with "communal usage" like cockpits is that no one feels responsible. It's not theirs after all. Most of us were taught to leave such places in a better state than we found them. But then again...
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
buckfifty
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:14 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 22):
Cockpits can be extremely manky. Often I don't understand the pilots. It is them whio have to sit for 8+ hours in there, I don't understand why they leave the cockpits so messy, with food crumbs etc. thrown all over the place. I know some pilots, who bring a desinfectant spray or desinfectant wipes and wipe all swiches, armrests and controls with them when they take over an aircraft.

They took out a RMP in front of me once. Looked in the hole, and I swear I can see cockroaches running around.
 
Molykote
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:29 pm

Quoting BuckFifty (Reply 24):
They took out a RMP in front of me once. Looked in the hole, and I swear I can see cockroaches running around.

Could have been.

Most carriers that I am aware of do place insect traps throughout their aircraft.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:36 pm

Quoting Molykote (Reply 25):

Most carriers that I am aware of do place insect traps throughout their aircraft.

With our Freighter arriving from BLR.Mosquitoes are a problem so regular repellant is used.
regds
MEL
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tt737fo
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:38 pm

The Japanese white glove thing is simply this: courtesy and cleanliness.

Train workers and taxi drivers also wear white gloves.

Many KAL pilots wear white gloves too. Golf gloves, one for the right hand, one for the left.

We wear nomex in the military, so it isn't that big of a deal.
 
YYZYYT
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:55 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 20):
Well, from my high school and college days in the marching band and the ROTC colorguard, white, especially on gloves, is an extremely hard color to keep clean. I probably averaged about 1 pair of gloves a month...

The band ones were pretty cool, though. They were 100% cotton and had these tiny little rubber dots on the inside of the fingers and on the palm that improved your grip I wonder if Japanese pilots use that style of gloves...

Had the same thought, wore white gloves for five years in the army cadet corps. The gloves were quite slippery and useless at gripping anything (such as swords  Big grin ) so I was wondering if the pilots in the photos had special gloves made...

Maybe like the little rubber dots on toddlers' socks? Maybe if you read closely they say "Gap Pilot" on them?
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 28):
Maybe like the little rubber dots on toddlers' socks? Maybe if you read closely they say "Gap Pilot" on them?

Lol. Those dots need to be way bigger to give any decent grip. My daughter has the bruises to prove it.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
USCGC130
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:30 am

Quoting Tt737fo (Reply 27):
We wear nomex in the military, so it isn't that big of a deal.

The difference is that Nomex flight gloves are worn by military pilots for a reason that's readily apparent.
 
bond007
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:19 am

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 19):
In their case I understand it's more about not transferring their germs so others can pick them up, not just simply avoiding other people's germs.



Quoting Tt737fo (Reply 27):
and cleanliness.

I guess I'm missing the part where wearing gloves is hygienic ???

So they go to the bathroom, wash their hands, and then put their dirty gloves back on??

AFAIK germs travel just as well on a glove, as they do on a bare hand .... even better if I wash my hands every few hours.


Jimbo
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:13 pm

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 31):
even better if I wash my hands every few hours.

That way to ensure Germ free washing use a photocell operated basin,as touching a dirty hand on a tap,washing ones hand & closing that tap handle transfers most of the germs back.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:06 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 32):
That way to ensure Germ free washing use a photocell operated basin,as touching a dirty hand on a tap,washing ones hand & closing that tap handle transfers most of the germs back.

That's why you grab a paper towel before you start washing, so you can close the taps with it. Big grin

I think the whole bacteria scare in the US is totally over the top. Antibacterial soaps for household use? That'll just kill the weaker bacteria and leave the really bad ones. It will also eventually make the bacteria resistant. We have evolved to handle bacteria. It's a good thing to be clean but no need to go to excess. Wash your hands before you eat.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
YYZYYT
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:31 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 33):
Wash your hands before you eat.

Surely not just then?

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 31):
guess I'm missing the part where wearing gloves is hygienic ???

So they go to the bathroom, wash their hands, and then put their dirty gloves back on??

AFAIK germs travel just as well on a glove, as they do on a bare hand .... even better if I wash my hands every few hours.


Jimbo

But at least they're getting their own germs on their hands and not everybody elses' germs. Or passing their germs on.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:44 pm

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 34):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 33):
Wash your hands before you eat.

Surely not just then?

Well, no. But that is the most important time for most people.

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 34):
But at least they're getting their own germs on their hands and not everybody elses' germs. Or passing their germs on.

What's the big deal? There are germs all around us and inside us. They do fly around in the air. They are in our beds, in our cars, everywhere. The vendors of antibacterial products make bacteria seem like a huge threat. For example, those shopping cart protectors for kids to sit. By cleaning everything constantly and using antibacterial products, people are doing themselves, and especially their kids, a disservice. Most exposure to germs is healthy since it builds up the immune system. I'm not suggesting we go around licking dirt or kissing ebola victims, but there is no need be clinically clean.

This is of course only anecdotal: My wife shares an office with this guy. She is cleanly, but will think nothing of picking up a fallen sandwich from the office floor and eating it. He is a clean freak and constantly cleans everything, including using antibacterial cream every 20 minutes or so. Her mother ran a reasonably clean house. His mother had a kitchen floor you could do surgery on. But despite all this, my wife is almost never sick and he is constantly coming down with something. My theory: my wife is more resistant.

Now don't get me wrong: I clean the kitchen counter often and thoroughly, as well as all food preparation stuff. I wash my hands before cooking, before eating, after using the toilet, before and after changing my daughters' diapers, when coming inside. But I just plain vanilla soap and detergent. I will very occasionally use an antibacterial wipe on the counter when I have prepared chicken.

But I'm not a fanatic about it. My daughter, when she used to crawl, could find the occasional breadcrumb. And sometimes she ate these. Did she become sick from this? No.

We have evolved to handle a "dirty" environment.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
KELPkid
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:56 pm

If cleanliness is your thing, then aviation is the wrong industry to be in Big grin

Even as a pilot, you have routine contact with greasy parts and fuel (pre-flight). In a GA plane, the cockpit has it's own unique smell, of old oil and a tinge of fuel. Apparently, in an airliner, the cockpit isn't exactly at the pinnacle of cleanliness. Kind of like a car when you eat and drink in it...
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:59 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 36):
If cleanliness is your thing, then aviation is the wrong industry to be in

Especially A&P.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:50 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 36):
Kind of like a car when you eat and drink in it...

At least most carriers in North America and Europe have banned smoking in the cockpit nowadays.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
David L
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:37 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 35):
By cleaning everything constantly and using antibacterial products, people are doing themselves, and especially their kids, a disservice. Most exposure to germs is healthy since it builds up the immune system. I'm not suggesting we go around licking dirt or kissing ebola victims, but there is no need be clinically clean.

This is something I've believed for years and now more doctors are confirming it.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 35):
This is of course only anecdotal:

Anecdotal, perhaps, but it agrees with many such examples I've witnessed.
 
bond007
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:53 am

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 34):
But at least they're getting their own germs on their hands and not everybody elses' germs. Or passing their germs on.

Why is that? Why is wearing gloves ANY different than wearing skin?

However the germs got onto your bare hands, can just as easily happen on gloves. Why is passing germs from glove to glove, any different from hand to hand?

The only difference I see is that the hands might actually be washed far more frequently than the gloves ... multiple times a day instead of probably once a day at the most for gloves ... those germs stay on those gloves much longer!


Jimbo
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:08 am

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 40):

The only difference I see is that the hands might actually be washed far more frequently than the gloves ... multiple times a day instead of probably once a day at the most for gloves

Agreed. Also, if there is grease or sticky gooey ectoplasm on anything in the cockpit, it may be easier to wear gloves that absorb rather than skin that just gets globs of ectoplasm on it.

If you know what I mean.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:37 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 33):
I think the whole bacteria scare in the US is totally over the top. Antibacterial soaps for household use? That'll just kill the weaker bacteria and leave the really bad ones. It will also eventually make the bacteria resistant. We have evolved to handle bacteria. It's a good thing to be clean but no need to go to excess. Wash your hands before you eat.



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 35):
Most exposure to germs is healthy since it builds up the immune system.

There exists a theory among doctors, being supported by statistical analysis of the number of occurences of allergies in rich industrial countries with a high standard of hygiene compared to poorer countries with a much lower standard, that exposure to dirt and germs in childhood is necessary to train the immune system to be able to distinguish the "enemy" from the own body. In fact an allergy is an immune reaction aimed at the wrong target, like an act of "friendly fire" inside the body. During my childhood in the early 1970s we were playing outside in the mud and allergies were relatively rare. Now I rarely see children playing outside, building sand castles or playing in the woods, and the number of allergies has become much higher.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 37):
Quoting KELPkid (Reply 36):
If cleanliness is your thing, then aviation is the wrong industry to be in

Especially A&P.
regds
MEL

You are thinking of the "cattle veterinary" posture (two bin liners over the arm up to the shoulder), digging in some toilet drain?  Wink

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
KELPkid
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:28 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 38):
At least most carriers in North America and Europe have banned smoking in the cockpit nowadays.

Indeed. Cigarette Smoke is bad for not only the lungs, but avionics, gyroscopes, and the cloth and plastic in the interior.
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:57 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 42):
During my childhood in the early 1970s we were playing outside in the mud and allergies were relatively rare. Now I rarely see children playing outside, building sand castles or playing in the woods, and the number of allergies has become much higher.

I have read much of the same. Now my wife and I have the chance to ruin (ahem, I mean raise) a new generation. We are hoping that she will not have too many problems with allergies. And we do encourage digging in the sand, picking up pinecones, checking out ants.. If nothing else, I like being in the woods. I really enjoyed the "boy scout" aspect of the army. I hope that my daughters will too.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 43):

Indeed. Cigarette Smoke is bad for not only the lungs, but avionics, gyroscopes, and the cloth and plastic in the interior.

And while I am not a huge fan of being oversensitive to dirt, I draw the line at second hand smoke. That stuff is just plain nasty. And your clothes smell bad afterwards.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:38 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 42):
You are thinking of the "cattle veterinary" posture (two bin liners over the arm up to the shoulder), digging in some toilet drain

I don't notice the Avionics guys there  Smile
Thats the worst you mentioned.

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MEL
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BAE146QT
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:34 pm

Quoting Starlionblue:
What's the big deal? There are germs all around us and inside us.

Hear, hear. Seems to me that the West is bringing up a generation of sickly wimps. Ironic, given that it's being done in the name of keeping them safe.

Quoting MD11Engineer:
There exists a theory among doctors, being supported by statistical analysis of the number of occurences of allergies in rich industrial countries with a high standard of hygiene compared to poorer countries with a much lower standard, that exposure to dirt and germs in childhood is necessary to train the immune system to be able to distinguish the "enemy" from the own body.

Completely true.

We are pre-programmed to be resistant to certain illnesses. In cell-mediated immunity, you have T4 or "Helper" cells, and T8 or "Killer" cells. They are initally (in the womb) formed in the bone marrow and pass to the thymus.

Once in the thymus, the cells are exposed to artifical antigens that the thymus knows how to produce and which simulate real diseases. This programs the immune system to recognise the antigens in the future so it knows what cells to make. Sort of like letting a police dog get a sniff of a suspect's sock.

Other antigens are the ones we get after birth by sticking muddy fingers in our mouths. If you're not exposed to these germs, the T-cells do not "learn" to bond with them. This has to happen at a young age - the thymus eventually dissolves and when it does, it's too late. You're the snot-nosed kid that nobody wants to play with.
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:07 pm

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 46):
Hear, hear. Seems to me that the West is bringing up a generation of sickly wimps. Ironic, given that it's being done in the name of keeping them safe.

Going off topic here, but this is true of psychology as well as physiology. With the current crop of "nothing but the best to make my child a success and keep him/her safe" parents, many psychologists are seeing evidence of stifled creativity. Some examples:
- I know people who have their kids in activities (violin, swimming, soccer, karate...) 5 days a week. No free time to do their own thing.
- Every single toy I look at tells me on the packaging how this "develops social/motor skills, speech..." Ironically, few tell me how much fun they are. My older daughter is perfectly happy playing with wooden blocks or a ball. No need for a specialized talking, pedagogical, animatronic doll. The doll steers her quite clearly down a path. The blocks are open ended play encouraging her to be creative.
- Child psychologists have tried leaving two year olds alone with some toys. Many don't know what to do since the parents have always been there to "lead play".
Now, I'm all for personal development, but sometimes kids have to be kids. I played for hours alone with a few sticks in the yard. All my imaginary pirate friends were there of course.

The most interesting development is that hiring managers are having problems with new hires out of college. The describe them as:
- Lacking initiative.
- Being slaves to collective decision making.
- Needing instant gratification.
- Needing to be told how good they are (Mom always did).
- Wanting to be promoted very soon (after all, Mom says I'm special).
Needless to say, these guys are in for a rude awakening.  Wink


Lessons of the story: Expose your kids to dirt. It's ok. Teach them it can be cleaned off. And let your kids develop their own personality and find their own path, while ensuring they know you are there for them.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
YYZYYT
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:20 am

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 40):
Why is that? Why is wearing gloves ANY different than wearing skin?

However the germs got onto your bare hands, can just as easily happen on gloves. Why is passing germs from glove to glove, any different from hand to hand?

Because you can take off the gloves when you need to scratch your face, thus leaving all of those other germs behind on the gloves rather than on your face?

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 35):
What's the big deal?

More to the point.

Don't get me wrong - I agree with you and all those who think that we worry too much about "germs"
and "cleanliness" (I've also heard the theory about excessive cleanliness and the link to increased asthma). The "five second rule" is very much alive and well in our household, and our kids are encouraged to get outside and roll about, dirt or no.

I was just pointing out a flaw in a post for the sake of being argumentative... isn't that the point of a.net?
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why Asian Pilots Use Gloves During Flight Ops?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:33 am

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 48):

I was just pointing out a flaw in a post for the sake of being argumentative... isn't that the point of a.net?

Hehe. Indeed it is.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo

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