donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

Why Do Low Cost C's Have Senior 1st Officers?

Mon Dec 02, 2002 5:10 am

Can somebody please explain to me why LCCs have senior first officers when they never do a rotation that exceeds 8 hours so there are no issues of a SFO taking command?
Cheers,Alex
 
Rick767
Posts: 2613
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2000 8:11 pm

RE: Why Do Low Cost C's Have Senior 1st Officers?

Mon Dec 02, 2002 7:44 am

This is another area (like I commented on a little while ago with regard to the "Second Officer") where the term is ambiguous. Different airlines apply different meanings to these terms.

The SFO position in the UK does not mean that you can take command on long flights. I am an SFO for my airline and can't fly form the left seat in my carrier. For that I need to pass an APIC course (Acting Pilot In Command) which is another year down the line at least.

The SFO is just a promotion, more seniority, more pay.

Nothing to do with longhaul flying whatsoever.

The 8 hour rule is also a US standard. In the UK we can go for 13 hours 15 minutes as a two-crew team (like Gatwick to Cancun - which for a US airline would never be allowed without a third pilot).
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
tzsfo
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2002 2:07 am

RE: Why Do Low Cost C's Have Senior 1st Officers?

Mon Dec 02, 2002 8:38 am

ATA does a rotation that requires an SFO (TZ calls them International Officers). The rotations that requires them is SFO-HNL/OGG,LAX-HNL/OGG, and PHX-HNL?OGG. So that's one LCC that actually uses a SFO!
It takes nerves of steel to stay neurotic. — Herb Kelleher
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: Why Do Low Cost C's Have Senior 1st Officers?

Mon Dec 02, 2002 9:24 am

Cheers guys!
Surprised then that the LCCs actually have SFOs given their penchant for cost-cutting everywhere.
I was wondering about the 2 crew hours limit.13h15 surprises me for a 2 man crew!At least the UK gets a competitive advantage there SmileWhat is BY like regarding say a BA pilot on board coming to the deck and offering to sit in for 1 of the pilots for an hour?I guess it's probabarly out of the question Sep 11?
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6056
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: Why Do Low Cost C's Have Senior 1st Officers?

Mon Dec 02, 2002 5:45 pm

In Cathay we have JFOs, FOs and SFOs. JFOs cannot provide inflight relief. FOs can provide inflight relief, but not be inflight commanders. This means that they can seat in the right seat with a JFO in the left seat for 'short' periods of time (Not sure exactly, but normally in the region of 2-3hrs). The next step up is SFO (Relief commander) where they provide long-haul relief and sit in the left seat with either another FO or S/O in the right seat.

Complicated....
 
Rick767
Posts: 2613
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2000 8:11 pm

RE: Why Do Low Cost C's Have Senior 1st Officers?

Mon Dec 02, 2002 6:27 pm

Complicated indeed, funny how it works in different airlines eh  Big grin

We have very few routes which normally require a relief crewmember in any event.
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...

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