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Question For Student Pilots Or CFIs

Wed Jan 08, 2003 10:33 am

I am currently taking lessons in a C-152 and I am having trouble establishing a concrete check list for "before landing checklist." Ours is a simple check of the mixture and fuel shut off valve. I flew gliders and even they had more detatiled check lists for landing.

Do any of you have check list that you use that are acronym based or make sense? Thanks a lot guys (and gals).


DeltaASA16
 
fspilot747
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RE: Question For Student Pilots Or CFIs

Wed Jan 08, 2003 10:43 am

We use GUMPS.

Gas (Fuel Shut-Off valve, tanks on both, etc.)
Undercarriage
Mixture-Rich
Prop
Safety (lights, etc.)

FSP
 
jtamu97
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RE: Question For Student Pilots Or CFIs

Wed Jan 08, 2003 10:44 am

Here is the one I used when I used to fly 172's:


BEFORE LANDING CHECK
1. Seat Belts-Secure
2. Fuel Selector- Both
3. Landing Light-On
4. Flaps-As required
5. Heading Indicator-Check
6. Mixture-Rich
7. Fuel Guages-Check

Propeller, we don't need no stinkin propeller
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Question For Student Pilots Or CFIs

Wed Jan 08, 2003 10:51 am

GUMPS is the most common acronym for the before-landing checklist. Most CFIs instruct it that way.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
jtamu97
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RE: Question For Student Pilots Or CFIs

Wed Jan 08, 2003 10:56 am

GUMPS is,but I wish they would try and modify if for 152's and such..The undercarriage and prop one is not as applicable as it is to a complex plane
Propeller, we don't need no stinkin propeller
 
BOEING747-700
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RE: Question For Student Pilots Or CFIs

Wed Jan 08, 2003 11:32 am

I use the GUMPS for the 172RGs. I think that is better for that aircraft. Since it has a Prop pitch and Retractable gear.
 
Omegous
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RE: Question For Student Pilots Or CFIs

Wed Jan 08, 2003 11:51 am

I learned to do GUMPLES in my 172S

Gas - (fuel selector both...left, right..whatever that situation demands)
Undercarriage - (really only for RG planes, but we do quick visual peak at the strut/wheel to check for anything (like bald spots on the tire, flat, etc))
Mixture - Set to best performance
Power - Set for best power for landing/circuit
Lights - As needed (Landing, etc)
Engine guages - check in green, etc
Ssafety and seat belts - Check secure (belts), etc
 
flyf15
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RE: Question For Student Pilots Or CFIs

Wed Jan 08, 2003 12:05 pm

Whatever you decide on using, look up a 152 POH and make sure you have everything covered that is in the offical checklist. Beyond that, you can add whatever you like, but do not remove anything.
 
SkyGuy11
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RE: Question For Student Pilots Or CFIs

Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:12 pm

Or GUMPBLES, which is the same as above with B standing for brakes - push on them to make sure the hydraulics are still there - if not they will go straight to the floor with no resistance and you'll know you're in for a loooooong landing.
.
 
ScooterTrash
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RE: Question For Student Pilots Or CFIs

Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:16 pm

No matter what I am flying, I do an additional short final check:

Gear Down
Pressure Good (hydraulic)
Cleared to Land

In a single engine trainer, such as your C152, revising this to "Cleared to Land" on short final may keep you from landing without a clearance. It is also a prompt to look ahead at the runway environment (are you landing on the proper runway? are there any obstructions?).

In airplanes that have them, I use the Taxi light switch to signify that I am cleared to land. I receive my clearance, I turn it "on" and recheck it's position on short final.

Most of all know the POH, and do what it says.
 
PPGMD
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RE: Question For Student Pilots Or CFIs

Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:19 pm

I used GUMPS:

Gas - On
Undercarriage - Down and locked
Mixture - Full rich
Prop - Max RPM
Speed - correct for configuration

Anything longer than 4-5 letters is too complex to do from memory and should be a checklist.

Let me guess in the glider you used U STALL?
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
Guest

RE: Question For Student Pilots Or CFIs

Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:23 pm

I just moved and I haven't unpacked er, found where we put the some of the boxes with my flying stuff in it. When it comes to checklists, the best place to start is with the checklist in the POH. There are a lot of different "pneumonic" checklists out there - and most of them are usable. However, I would caution you at this point in your training not to use one with "undercarriage" as in the GUMPS check and the reason is simple - you get used to not taking it very seriously, after all, the gear is "down and welded". Most likely it's going to be a couple of hundred hours and a few hundred landings before you get your hands on anything with retractable gear. That's a long time to be reinforcing that type of response. When the time comes to upgrade into a high performance complex airplane there will be enough new stuff (like retractable gear, constant speed propeller, "fancy" avionics", etc.) that you won't have much problem adapting to a different checklist at that time. What you don't want to do is get in the habit of saying "undercarriage" and doing nothing. All in all, the one in the POH is probably the best, again because it will develop early on the habit of using a written checklist. That's what the big boys us whether it's laminated on paper, silkscreened into panel in the cockpit, or it comes up on the MFD. Now's as good a time as any to get used to running a written checklist.

Jetguy
 
buckfifty
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RE: Question For Student Pilots Or CFIs

Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:33 pm

The ones I'm using now:

Downwind checks:

Brakes checked
Undercarriage fixed
Mixture full rich
Fuel pump on and/or fuel selector on and/or fuel quantity sufficient
Harnesses secure

Check on finals:

Pitch full fine
Undercarriage down, three lights
Flaps as required
Landing clearance received
Runway is clear

It's always good to include the prop pitch and undercarriage, because eventually you'll fly aircraft that will have them. The only thing that's different is that you'll have to call out "pitch and undercarriage fixed."
 
wilcharl
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RE: Question For Student Pilots Or CFIs

Wed Jan 08, 2003 3:19 pm

rather then have an acronym i just used a flow that i backed with a checklist much better for single pilot opperation... i make an L in the 152 i start out make sure the seatbelt and shoulder harness is on go to the fuel selector (better be on in a 152) go up, mixture to full rich landing light on mags on both

i am a firm believer in flows with a checklist to back up the flow rather then acronyms or the checklist... you miss items and get distarcted grilling the checklist... if im flying 2 pilot ops even if the other "pilot" is a pax, i use challenge response. when i do use an acronym is for take off (no fancy lgihts camera action or cigar or anything like that) just STP like the fuel addative

strobes (landing light too) transponder pump (boost pump)

if your going to fly professionaly as a goal, i suggest starting out as a pro.. thats why I beleive in flows + challenge response .. many flight schools and CFIs are overly anal about the checklist to the point that key items get missed...

hope this helps

 
SkyGuy11
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RE: Question For Student Pilots Or CFIs

Wed Jan 08, 2003 3:38 pm

'Anything longer than 4-5 letters is too complex to do from memory and should be a checklist.'

I completely disagree; as long as you have a neumonic device to use (i.e. a word that you can associate the letters with) you won't have a problem, and a word like GUMPBLES just kind of sticks with you.

The one I use on runup is CIGARS
C controles (check)
I instruments (set and check)
G gas (mixture and fuel selector)
A attitude (trim)
R radios and runup
S safety belts
Then I double check everything in the written checklist.


'What you don't want to do is get in the habit of saying "undercarriage" and doing nothing.'

This is a good idea, and one that I have never thought of. However if you do get in the habit of actually looking at your gear when you say "U" not only will you know if your left main gear has a problem but you will also get in the habit of checking for your gear long before you actually make the switch to an RG airplane.


Besides, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the airlines use a flow pattern type of deal where they run through everything verbally and then double check it with the written list?
.
 
SkyGuy11
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RE: Question For Student Pilots Or CFIs

Wed Jan 08, 2003 3:47 pm

'thats why I beleive in flows + challenge response'

Can you please elaborate; I do not know what a challenge response is (my guess is it requires at least a two person crew). Thanks.
.
 
wilcharl
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RE: Question For Student Pilots Or CFIs

Wed Jan 08, 2003 4:42 pm

challenge response is just like it sounds.... Fuel pump .... ON Landing light ON Transponder .... ALTITUDe.. etc... it does take two people, either a flying buddy once your rated or your CFI... when i was learning to fly, i remember some of the first solo flights missing items because i was trying to hard to get every item on the checklist, thats why when i fly alone, i do my flow from memory then look at the checklist and check everything off...
with the landing gear if your gonna go the big route, defiently add the gear down, sporites even sells a dummy landing gear switch so you can tack it on and add it to your flow
 
Guest

RE: Question For Student Pilots Or CFIs

Wed Jan 08, 2003 9:35 pm

Skyguy11 has it correct. You do your "flows" (a memorized sequence of actions) and then follow it up with a "challenge and response" written checklist. That method provides a check and double check to make sure the airplane is configured properly. Just don't let yourself get into the position where you have something on a checklist that you routinely "blow" past, such as having an item like Landing Gear on a fixed gear plane. You don't want to get used to blowing by it in a simple airplane and accidently blow by it when you're in a retract. It has happened many times. Nearly 100% of the pilots involved in gearup accidents swear that the put the gear down. I'm sure they probably did say "Gear - Down" and blew through it without checking for the lights and or other indications - a habit that was reinforced by using an inappropriate checklist for 100s of hours in a "simple" airplane. Always use an appropriate checklist. You'll get to fly complex aircraft soon enough.

Jetguy
 
Guest

RE: Question For Student Pilots Or CFIs

Thu Jan 09, 2003 8:42 am

In my flight training I am required to memorize every individual checklist. And then say everything out loud. My instructor makes sure that I havn't forgotten anything. Then he makes me go over it with my checklists that I take onboard. Heres the checklist that my club uses.

PRE-LANDING CHECKS
(down wind checks)

Brakes - Pressure and off
Undercarriage down and locked
Mixture Rich
Carbureter heat off
Pitch fixed
Fuel on fullest tank
Quantity sufficient
Fuel Pump on
Pressure Satisfactory
Primer Locked
Harness Secured
Landing light on in bad vision or heavy traffic

I fly the tomahawk but I think these checklists apply to many other planes at the club. Even the starting checklist is very detailed with 20 different checks.

Hope this helps
Ryan
 
PPGMD
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RE: Question For Student Pilots Or CFIs

Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:22 pm

"I completely disagree; as long as you have a neumonic device to use (i.e. a word that you can associate the letters with) you won't have a problem, and a word like GUMPBLES just kind of sticks with you."

Skyguy, that maybe what you believe but I prefer to do a written checklist if it's more than 4-5 items. I only use the numonic device for the absolute important stuff that I would check on final, even though I have gone though the checklist earlier. I do use ARROW, but thats not something that important to flight so I feel I can get away with it.

I know that some people use CIGAR for the runup, but I feel I have all the time in the world, so I will go over the checklist in full. Heck I purposfully make laminated checklists that I carry with my charts for each of the aircraft that I currently fly.

The thing that has always stuck with me, is what my first instructor told me (the old canned avaition pharse), "No second of flight time is worth your life."
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Question For Student Pilots Or CFIs

Thu Jan 09, 2003 3:29 pm

If you are going to memorize stuff, you have to check it. All the Glumps is or any variation is simply a flow pattern. You can do that, but you gotta run over a checklist afterwards to make sure all the necessary items were hit.

This is a philosophy that most airlines use now.. called Do then check. Do the memorized flow completely from memory, and at the appropriate time call for the checklist to make sure all the pertinent items are in their correct positions.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
paulc
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RE: Question For Student Pilots Or CFIs

Tue Jan 14, 2003 12:53 am

I was taught to use BUMFICC when in AA5's for downwind / finals

B - Brakes (operative/parking brake off)
U - Undercarriage (down & welded in AA5 but good to practice)
M - Mixture (full rich)
F - Fuel (indications/correct tank/fuel pump on)
I - Instruments (temps & pressure & altimeter setting)
C - Carb heat (usually a quick burst of)
C - Cabin secure

Even after several years of non flying it is still easily remembered.
(not 100% sure about HASEL though)  Big grin (heading,altitude, secure, engine, look out)
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SSTjumbo
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RE: Question For Student Pilots Or CFIs

Tue Jan 14, 2003 9:56 am

I like to not worry about the "as needed" parts of the checklists simply because you'll likely end up covering them anyway. I simply go mixture rich, carb heat on (you should be around 1900RPM in a 152 at 80 kts or 1700RPM at 70kts, right?), and safety belts check. Upon descent at left base, I use 70kts to judge my descent and apply flaps when necessary, but only when throttle is low. Hope that helps somewhat.

Cheers
Mike
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ThirtyEcho
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RE: Question For Student Pilots Or CFIs

Tue Jan 14, 2003 3:50 pm

"GUMPS is,but I wish they would try and modify if for 152's and such..The undercarriage and prop one is not as applicable as it is to a complex plane"

Try landing with a flat tire that is partway off the rim; that'll put the "U" back in GUMPS fer ya.

Ask your instructor to look out his window and check his tire, too. That's a habit I picked up in the first 210s when a right main, showing green, almost folded up on landing. I'll even ask a passenger to check that his gear is down in a high winger. If you are solo in a 152, you can see the right main tire, yourself.

Whatever "systems" you read about here, use the checklist in the POH. Don't be a test pilot.
 
flyingbronco05
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RE: Question For Student Pilots Or CFIs

Thu Jan 16, 2003 9:54 am

God my last "lesson" was 3 weeks ago and I already forgot the prelanding checklist off the top of my head. I guess that's why the checklist stays in the plane, huh?!
Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge

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