AM
Topic Author
Posts: 598
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 1999 8:49 am

North Atlantic Question

Sat Feb 01, 2003 11:41 am

Hi everyone,

Just a small question about North Atlantic flights. Is there a point where you officially start/end a NA crossing? For example, the first and last points of the NA Track, or the point where you contact either Gander or Shanwick? Just curious.

"... for there you have been and there you will long to return."
 
H. Simpson
Posts: 933
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2001 7:30 am

RE: North Atlantic Question

Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:17 pm

I believe the answer is yes, but I'm not a professional so please don't quote me...

I believe the report points/fixes are:
Canada:
MOATT, PRAWN, PORGY, LOACH, SCROD, OYSTR, CARPE, HECKK, AND CRONO

Europe:
RATSU, ATSIX, BALIX, ERAKA, GOMUP, MIMKU, NIBOG, MASIT, DOGAL, MALOT, LIMRI, DINIM, LESLU, GAPLI, RATKA

I'm just reading off the fixes lie between Gander/Shanwick oceanic FIR,Gander Domestic and Shanwick(?)

 
CPH-R
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: North Atlantic Question

Sun Feb 02, 2003 1:02 am

Remember that the NAT tracks changes every day, and so does the reporting points.

There used to be up-to-date NAT tracks on this site: http://www.natroutes.glideslope.de
 
H. Simpson
Posts: 933
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2001 7:30 am

RE: North Atlantic Question

Sun Feb 02, 2003 10:29 am

Just in case, here's the link to the U.S. NOTAM system, it contains not only NOTAMS but also NAT tracks and Pacific tracks

...make sure you click "Yes" to the security note, it won't harm your computer, but let's the federals monitor your activity  Laugh out loud

https://www.notams.jcs.mil/
 
AM
Topic Author
Posts: 598
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 1999 8:49 am

RE: North Atlantic Question

Fri Feb 07, 2003 11:04 pm

Thanks everyone.

So by when, by what point, should you already have a clearance by Gander or Shanwick for your North Atlantic crossing?
"... for there you have been and there you will long to return."
 
Guest

RE: North Atlantic Question

Fri Feb 07, 2003 11:08 pm

Hola Bernardo...

You need to get your oceanic clearance 30 minutes or 200 nm prior to entering oceanic airspace. How you get it depends upon your equipment and point of departure.

Jetguy
 
AM
Topic Author
Posts: 598
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 1999 8:49 am

RE: North Atlantic Question

Sat Feb 08, 2003 7:11 am

Thanks Jetguy.

What are the ways to obtain an oceanic clearance? VHF (if you're close enough to the station), HF and CPDLC?

Do you know if there's an "official" point where your oceanic crossing begins (for example, entering oceanic airspace, or the 1st track waypoint whichever it is)?
"... for there you have been and there you will long to return."
 
H. Simpson
Posts: 933
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2001 7:30 am

RE: North Atlantic Question

Sat Feb 08, 2003 9:13 am

AM, I believe pilots use VHF to obtain clearence, sicne VHF has a generally good coverage of Canada Coastal area (which most transatlantic would fly over). Then they switch to HF.

VHF obviously has a much better signal quality and intelligibility (sp?) then HF, if you ever got a chance to listen the NAT HF frequencies, you would find a lot of noise, and many information needs to be repeated.


NAT "starting points":

If you take a look at today's NAT tracks,
PART ONE OF TWO PARTS-

U VIXUN 49/50 50/40 52/30 53/20 MALOT BURAK
EAST LVLS 320 330 340 350 360 370 380 390 400
WEST LVLS NIL
EUR RTS WEST NIL
NAR N63B N67B-

V YYT 48/50 49/40 51/30 52/20 LIMRI DOLIP
EAST LVLS 320 330 340 350 360 370 380 390 400
WEST LVLS NIL
EUR RTS WEST NIL
NAR N53B N57A-

W COLOR 47/50 48/40 50/30 51/20 DINIM GIPER
EAST LVLS 320 330 340 350 360 370 380 390 400
WEST LVLS NIL
EUR RTS WEST NIL
NAR N43A N49A-

X BANCS 46/50 47/40 49/30 50/20 SOMAX KENUK
EAST LVLS 320 330 340 350 360 370 380 390 400
WEST LVLS NIL
EUR RTS WEST NIL
NAR N35A N41C-

Y AKERS 40/60 44/50 46/40 48/30 49/20 BEDRA GUNSO
EAST LVLS 310 340 380
WEST LVLS NIL
EUR RTS WEST NIL
NAR NIL-


You would notice each track is denoted by a letter (ie. X, Y), and the first waypoint (ie. AKERS for Track Y) is usually the entry point! Big grin

and today's trakc info also included the VHF frequencies for clearence:
1. CLEARANCE DELIVERY FREQUENCY ASSIGNMENTS FOR AIRCRAFT OPERATING
FROM MOATT TO BOBTU INCLUSIVE:
MOATT TO SCROD 128.7
OYSTR TO DOTTY 135.45
CYMON TO VIXUN 135.05
YYT TO COLOR 128.45
BANCS TO BOBTU 119.42



Take a look at the site I listed above, and you will see more of this message!
https://www.notams.jcs.mil/

Cheers,
Dennis  Big thumbs up
 
AM
Topic Author
Posts: 598
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 1999 8:49 am

RE: North Atlantic Question

Sat Feb 08, 2003 10:34 am

Wow, thanks a lot for your replies, Dennis! I really appreciate it.
"... for there you have been and there you will long to return."
 
Guest

RE: North Atlantic Question

Sat Feb 08, 2003 10:58 am

Bernardo,
You can get the clearance any number of ways. Datalink is the easiest, if it's available to you, followed by VHF and of course HF. I would even imagine that you could use the sat phone and call them for it. I'm sure that it's been done before.

As far as the official beginning and ending points go, I believe that you would be referring to the "coast out" and "coast in" points.

Jetguy
 
H. Simpson
Posts: 933
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2001 7:30 am

RE: North Atlantic Question

Sat Feb 08, 2003 11:38 am

no problem AM...hehe  Wink/being sarcastic

Jetguy, actually datalink is still a fairy new tech. It's becoming more popular in Australia (not sure about other locations)...In the NAT side, Gander begins to adopt what is know as HFDL...it's quite similar to datalink, which the airplane broadcast a short burst of tones to report it's position and fuel etc....I'm not quite sure how it works so please don't quote me on this  Big grin

If you have a shortwave radio with SSB capability, you should definitely try to listen the HF comm before they phrase out soon!!
 
Guest

RE: North Atlantic Question

Sat Feb 08, 2003 12:35 pm

You're right, I was using "data link" as a generic term. We actually used a sevice called "Unilink" for our clearances.

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