TransatGuy
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Need Quick Reply! 747-canoes On Rear Flaps

Mon Mar 03, 2003 9:10 am

Hey all, just saw Ogden take a chunk off one of KLM's rear flap canoe (I think that's what their called) it looks like the cut was pretty bad. They ran a loader in to it. Now it looks like their ready to go. Is there any risks involved in flying with a broken canoe?
 
jhooper
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RE: Need Quick Reply! 747-canoes On Rear Flaps

Mon Mar 03, 2003 9:14 am

Yes, there are risks involved and the aircraft should be grounded. It looks like you're outside the US, so giving you the FAA Safety Hotline probably wouldn't do any good, but definitely get this to the attention to the crew if it looks like they didn't notice it, or call the local control tower or inform a company agent and inform them so they can pass it along to the crew.

[Edited 2003-03-03 01:18:32]
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
jhooper
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RE: Need Quick Reply! 747-canoes On Rear Flaps

Mon Mar 03, 2003 9:17 am

........but in case you're interested, here's what the FAA says about reporting problems in the states.


How to Report A Safety Problem

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has an Aviation Safety toll-free Hotline (1-800-255-1111) for reporting possible violations of the Federal Aviation Regulations or other aviation safety issues such as improper record keeping, non-adherence to procedures, unsafe aviation practices, etc. If the toll-free number is used for reporting, and the caller requests confidentiality, caller identity or information in the report concerning an individual can be protected from release under the Privacy Act.

The toll-free number provides 24 hour, 7-day a week coverage. If callers believe an issue is time-critical and should be addressed immediately, an option on the after-hours voice recording will connect them with FAA personnel who will take appropriate action on their report.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
777236ER
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RE: Need Quick Reply! 747-canoes On Rear Flaps

Mon Mar 03, 2003 9:18 am

Aren't the canoes MELable? I'm pretty sure they are.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
jhooper
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RE: Need Quick Reply! 747-canoes On Rear Flaps

Mon Mar 03, 2003 9:26 am

I'm not really sure, but I would think that any sort of structural damage should be cause for grave concern.


Are you in Canada? Perhaps you could ask these folks:

Transport Canada
620 - 800 Burrard Street
Vancouver, British Columbia
V6Z 2J8
Telephone: (604) 666-3518
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
777236ER
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RE: Need Quick Reply! 747-canoes On Rear Flaps

Mon Mar 03, 2003 9:28 am

Before going screaming to the authorities, maybe you should talk to the airline involved. Gate agent? Captain? F/O? Handling agent? They're not going to dispatch an unsafe aircraft. If the canoe fairing is MELable, which I think it is, they're fine.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
WhalePilot
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RE: Need Quick Reply! 747-canoes On Rear Flaps

Mon Mar 03, 2003 9:32 am

The canoes are on the CDL.
 
brons2
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RE: Need Quick Reply! 747-canoes On Rear Flaps

Mon Mar 03, 2003 1:27 pm

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the CDL?
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
737doctor
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RE: Need Quick Reply! 747-canoes On Rear Flaps

Mon Mar 03, 2003 1:32 pm

Configuration Deviation List
Patrick Bateman is my hero.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Need Quick Reply! 747-canoes On Rear Flaps

Mon Mar 03, 2003 2:18 pm

>>>Before going screaming to the authorities, maybe you should talk to the airline involved.

Absolutely!

Some situations like this (including potential UN-necessary calls to regulatory authorities) can be avoided if the crew just makes a short/simple little PA to the passengers. Something to the effect of "some of you mave a noticed xxxx, it's OK to go without it per XXXX, and safety is not compromised, etc. etc." I wouldn't expect a crew to do this for just -any- item CDL'd, just big items that are viewable from the passenger cabin. (Not static wicks, etc.)

I know of one pilot who once had a thrust reverser actuator fairing removed (inboard side, 737-200) and when a passneger in the back questioned it to a F/A, and the F/A brought him upfront. The captain came out of the cockpit, heard the man's concerns, and went back into the cockpit. He came right back out with his MEL/CDL book, and showed the man where it was in the book, i.e. that contingencies had been covered, hence its inclusion in the book, and that they were safe and legal to go with the fairing removed, which satisfied the passenger. The captain then made a short PA (since everyone in the front part of the aircraft wondered what the heck was going on), and explained that a passenger had a question that he'd just successfully answered, and that they'd be departing momentarily.

Their is sometimes great danger in ASSUMING things one does not know about; ohers might argue otherwise, and that passengers should always assume the worst. It comes down to a matter of trust.





ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
L-188
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RE: Need Quick Reply! 747-canoes On Rear Flaps

Mon Mar 03, 2003 2:24 pm

If memory serves, TWA 800 also had a CDL out on a flapjack fairing(the technical name for that particular component.)

That is a pretty common ailment on aircraft.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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CCA
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RE: Need Quick Reply! 747-canoes On Rear Flaps

Mon Mar 03, 2003 5:29 pm

L-188 just a minor correction it is a FlapTRACK fairing.

Canoes are purely aerodynamic fairings for the flaptracks and one may be missing entirely with the associated performance penalty, so the A/C shouldn't be grounded all. A full inspection to see if damage was caused to the flap track and mechanism should have been carried out while the damage to the canoe was assessed and or repaired.

All that is needs to be done is to consult the SRM (Structural Repair Manual) It would give the limits of damage and associated instructions, which could vary from a within limits repair like use high speed tape and inspect after each flight to an out of limits repair , so the options are repair it on the A/C which could take some time, remove and repair or replace by robbing the part from another company A/C.

It's a common occurrence to have A/C parts robbed from A/C currently in the hanger or on the ground for an extended period.
P1 in A330, A340, A346, B742, B744, B748.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Need Quick Reply! 747-canoes On Rear Flaps

Mon Mar 03, 2003 5:35 pm

>>>flapjack fairing

Those are the ones lubricated with maple syrup, right?

Man, I was getting -hungry-  Big grin
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
737doctor
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RE: Need Quick Reply! 747-canoes On Rear Flaps

Mon Mar 03, 2003 5:59 pm

OPNL, LOL

I was going to say something myself, but let it go...
Patrick Bateman is my hero.
 
N659AA
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RE: Need Quick Reply! 747-canoes On Rear Flaps

Sat Mar 08, 2003 4:42 am

>>>flapjack fairing

Those are the ones lubricated with maple syrup, right?

Man, I was getting -hungry-


Too early for flapjacks?? (Reference to Groundhog Day....the movie) Big grin  Big grin  Big grin
 
KLAX
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RE: Need Quick Reply! 747-canoes On Rear Flaps

Sat Mar 08, 2003 7:35 am

LOL. I have a friend who was a UA 727 F/O who is now retired tell me once that the only incident he ever encountered in 25 years on the three-holer was flying with a missing flaptrack fairing. Says alot about how safe flying is now adays.  Smile

-Clovis
 
L-188
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RE: Need Quick Reply! 747-canoes On Rear Flaps

Sat Mar 08, 2003 9:37 am

It was the spellchecker!!!


I swear it!!!  Laugh out loud
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.

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