Jeff714
Topic Author
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:23 am

How Do They Fix The Damage?

Thu May 22, 2003 1:45 pm

One of the pics posted today shows an AA 757 at SNA with some damage. How is the damage repaired? By that I mean John Wayne is a little airport and I don't think they have any repair facilities. Are there roving structural mechanics for just such things? I apologize if this question has been asked before.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Thu May 22, 2003 2:31 pm

It depends on where the damage is, and how severe. The aircraft is inspected, and if the damage doesn't exceed certain criteria, it probably can be "maintenance ferried" to a site where the airline has repair facilities. No passengers, or even flight attendants, are allowed on a MX ferry, just the flightcrew. One of the airline's maintenance controllers and a flight dispatcher must authorize the flight, and the paperwork is then sent to the station for the captain.

One of the common flight restrictions for an aircraft with fuselage damage is that the aircraft must remain unpressurized. That usually limits the aircraft to a max altitude of 10,000 feet, and we crank that into the fuel planning for the flight to the repair facility. Other restrictions might involve avoidance of icing conditions, limiting operations to day-only, or cloud-free conditions.

Some types of damage require fixing the aircraft wherever it is. For example, if someone drives a tug into an engine cowling, the cowling will most likely need to be changed on-site, which means a new cowling will get trucked in, and then replaced. If the airline doesn't have its own mechanics at that airport, it'll fly some in to accomplish the repair.

I'll let the maintenance types chime in re: how much damage is too much for a MX ferry, but I've covered the general items...

ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
JETPILOT
Posts: 3094
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 6:40 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Thu May 22, 2003 5:42 pm

In Miami a Tower air 747 had a wing fire which burned a whole right through the wing.

Boeing came to miami with several tractor trailers, erected a tent over the wing, and worked for about a month 24 hours a day repairing the wing.

Very amazing to watch. I thought the plane would be written off.

JET
 
BrusselsSouth
Posts: 565
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2001 2:12 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Thu May 22, 2003 6:23 pm

Just for illusration :


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Serge Bailleul
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Adrian Casaula



Regards
BrusselsSouth
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Thu May 22, 2003 9:33 pm

Also on the subject of Boeing on-site repairs, the most extensive one I've ever heard of was the JAL 747 at ANC sometime back in the 1980s. The 747 has skidded off an icy runway/taxiway and was completely off the runway, and at least 1 or 2 engines had been separated, plus lots of other damage. In the dead of winter, Boeing brought all sorts of personnel, tools, and parts, erected tents, and started the work. It took several months, but IIRC, they essentially rebuilt the 747 from the floorline down. The final bill was about $6 million USD less than the cost of a new 747 then, so I guess the insurance company was happy.

The 747 repair that BrusslesSouth mention is also a good example, and makes me wonder why similar repairs weren't accomplished on the USAirways 767 (N654US) at PHL a couple of years ago. (The aircraft had an uncontained #1 engine failure during an overnight run-up by MX, and the ensuing fire got the wing). Maybe the fire damage, or the schrapnel damage (and there was plenty) was too much, or maybe nobody wanted the future liability for the repair. The aircraft ended up be written off and scrapped on-site.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Jeff714
Topic Author
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:23 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Thu May 22, 2003 11:39 pm

Thanks for the quick replies and the info.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Fri May 23, 2003 2:45 am

I remember an incident about four years ago @ FL where a tug driver running bags collided with the nose of a DC-9 (the driver ignored the marshaller, and also broke the rule about driving under jetways). It shattered the nose cone, and damaged the front pressure bulkhead, and most of the avionics. The estimated repair cost was like $2 million, and since the plane was being retired in a little more than a month, they decided to ferry it out to the desert earlier than they planned. They fixed it up enough to fly it out to AZ. The pilots followed the 10,000 ft. rule, and got into some bad weather over TX, and came close to crashing the a/c.
 
Guest

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Fri May 23, 2003 3:05 am

Dear Jeff -
xxx
A type of situation, that you might not be aware of - engine "out" ferries - that is, flying an aircraft (for the purpose of repairing/replacing an engine somewhere else) with a failed engine... only 3 and 4 engine aircraft are legal to be flown with a failed engine, 2 engine airplanes cannot do that...
xxx
Like our friend OPNLguy mentioned, in case of maintenance ferry flights, we bring a flight crew qualified to do engine-out ferries, no passengers or flight attendants are permitted on board for that purpose...
xxx
This is one great advantage of 3 and 4 engine airplanes versus the "twins", there may be a fairly new 777, one day, making an emergency landing on a small island somewhere, that very well might be scrapped, because it cannot, under any circumstance, be flown out of there...
xxx
I have done a few engine-out ferries of 747s in my life, and once, a 707... other than being extremely careful for takeoff contingencies, ferrying with an engine-out does not present too many problems... Here in Argentina, all our 747 crews are engine-out ferry qualified, except captains with limited experience on the that type of aircraft.
xxx
Happy contrails  Smile
(s) Skipper
 
m717
Posts: 540
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 1:01 pm

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Fri May 23, 2003 4:12 am

"This is one great advantage of 3 and 4 engine airplanes versus the "twins", there may be a fairly new 777, one day, making an emergency landing on a small island somewhere, that very well might be scrapped, because it cannot, under any circumstance, be flown out of there..."

This is a most unlikely scenario, and would occur only in a most dire set of circumstances, where the alternative would have the aircraft "scrapped" already. ETOPS flight and diversion planning don't consider airports where the aircraft "cannot, under any circumstances, be flown out of there".
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Fri May 23, 2003 4:18 am

>>>ETOPS flight and diversion planning don't consider airports where the aircraft "cannot, under any circumstances, be flown out of there".

I think he made his statement solely in the context of not being able to single-engine ferry a twin anywhere...

Either of you two guys recall the Eastern L-1011 that was on a 2-engine ferry from Mexico City-Miami eons ago? They lost a second engine (can't recall if it was just past V1, or after they were airborne and on the climbout) and they came back to land on a single engine. Hot day too, IIRC. Must have been something to see...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Fri May 23, 2003 4:46 am

My hats off to the sheetmetal/structural mechanics. These guys are truly the miracle workers of the airlines. These guys definitely don't get the credit or recognition they deserve. The systems guys fix the systems, but the structures guy fix the airplane. A little kid watching my dad fix the car might describe the awe I feel for these artisans. They work from the airplane, structural repair manual, which when I look through it, might be similer to a layman reading a complex system schematic or wiring diagram, it's over my head, but oh so interesting.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
m717
Posts: 540
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 1:01 pm

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Fri May 23, 2003 4:53 am

OPNLguy,

I see your point. I guess it was the "under any circumstances" that threw me.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

I don't recall the L-1011 incident you mentioned (I've only been around for half an eon  Big grin), however I think there are some guys around here that probably do. I'll see if I can dredge up some details.
 
Guest

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Fri May 23, 2003 5:49 am

Oh OPNLguy - I am an old fart - I am sure our friend M717 did not mean it the bad way - I am quite sociable... and always smiling...
xxx
The problem is, in being old fashion as I am, I only want to fly airplanes (i.e. 747) with 3 cockpit flight crews (no flight engineer does not exist for me) and with 3 or 4 engines, I swim well but cannot do it from the middle of the ocean to the nearest shores... ETOPS still is engines "turning" or... pilots swimming - at least with my philosophy from the last century... and don't you tell me I was flying with the Wright Bros. and gave pilot training to von Richtoffen...  Smile
xxx
I know we have a lot of A-330, 767 or 777 admirers here, so I shall stay quiet with my 4-engined Boeingosaurus...
xxx
Happy contrails -
(s) Skipper
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Fri May 23, 2003 6:03 am

"... so I shall stay quiet with my 4-engined Boeingosaurus..."

You meanlike the one right on top of the page? Big grin
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Mr Spaceman
Posts: 2723
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 5:09 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Fri May 23, 2003 6:11 am

Hi guys.

Here's 2 photos of the American Airlines 757 at SNA that Jeff714 was talking about. It was damaged when a fire truck rolled into it!  Nuts


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael Carter
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael Carter



I wonder how long this 757's repairs will take?

Check out the "substantial damage" to the fuselage of this Delta Airlines MD-88. The accident occured when the tug "jackknifed" and hit the jet during pushback at the Denver Intl Airport on April 22, 2003. Poor airplane!  Sad


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jarett Sirko



Here's the Delta MD-88's NTSB report.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20030501X00608&key=1

I wonder how long it will take the sheetmetal / structural mechanics to repair the 4 ft X 2 ft hole that was torn in her side?

Chris  Smile
"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Fri May 23, 2003 6:26 am

I dug up another example of truck vs. airplane, hope you don't mind the download time:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Rogério Carvalho


"That´s gotta hurt!!!" Quite true, actually.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6409
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Fri May 23, 2003 7:23 am

Many years ago a 733 ran off the runway at Roenne Airport on the island Bornholm in the Baltic Sea. If I remember well the gear collapsed, and both fuselage and one wing and one engine were severely damaged.

Boeing technicians worked on the site probably for a couple of months, and then the plane was as good as new.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
atlamt
Posts: 244
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:15 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Fri May 23, 2003 9:08 am

The MD88 Mr Spaceman posted a pic of was out of service for 14 days including the NTSB investigation.
Fwd to MCO and Placard
 
Dalmd88
Posts: 2390
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Fri May 23, 2003 11:09 am

That 757 damage wasn't very bad. I quick guess is the replaced the slat, replaced the fillet fairing with maybe a repair to the fairing support. It doesn't look like they got into the belly of the plane. As for our poor Delta MD-88 yes that took some time and some guys from Base mint in ATL made a lot of OT on that job. I was at work the night it happened. The engineers were down in our overhaul bay looking at our plane to see what was involved. Meanwhile a eighteen wheeler flatbed was loading up with jacks, shoring and the hydraulic mule to swing the gear. We all went into the office to see the pictures. The one posted here isn't the best view, but it's the only one someone outside of the company took.

That job was a good bit of work I bet. What is the most fun part of doing it? Cutting into the side of the plane is cool. After you clean the hole up you just stand back and say what a mother of a hole that is. The real trick is a good layout. The Structural Repair Manual(SRM) is very general for most repairs, that maybe why some guys are overwhelmed by it. It usually says make the doubler(the patch) out of one gauge thicker metal and will call out for three rows of fasteners around the edge. It will tell you what type of fastener, typically rivets and hilocks. The SRM is general so you tailor the repair to your damage. If your smart you lay out the cut to make the fasteners fall in easy to reach places. It isn't always possible, but you try when you can. The other caveat is to do no more harm. I've seen many jobs grow to larger repair due to a sloppy drill or ziz wheel.

Repairs like the one on the MD-88 above aren't really hard. The just take some planning and patience.

 
mirrodie
Posts: 6789
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Fri May 23, 2003 11:20 am

Great thread. Sorry I don't know much about it, but I have to say, this has to be one of the most original threads I have read in a LONG TIME.  Big thumbs up

Are there any images out there of DAMAGED aircraft up in the air?? flying or being ferried. Must be remarkable!
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Fri May 23, 2003 1:50 pm

For the obvious PR reasons (as well as not to upset regular schedules) such ferry flights usually take place at night.
I wish I were flying
 
737doctor
Posts: 1291
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 4:52 pm

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Fri May 23, 2003 2:12 pm

Speaking of three-engine ferries, here is link to an incident of which I was intimately aware. I know the mechanic that signed off the MX release. He was watching while the aircraft made its takeoff roll and was horrified as the plane crashed. It affected him very deeply. I was working in SLC at the time and met the FO's widow. He was from Utah and fairly new with the company; after her husband's death, she came out to see one of our other airplanes to get a better sense of what her husband did for a living. I'll never forget the look in her eyes.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001207X02949&key=1
Patrick Bateman is my hero.
 
ryu2
Posts: 1545
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2002 8:18 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Fri May 23, 2003 2:16 pm

How about the QANTAS 747-400 at BKK? That must have been quite a job too right? Does anyone have details of how they repaired it, and how much was onsite?
 
n949wp
Posts: 1398
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2000 3:45 pm

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Fri May 23, 2003 4:20 pm

On October 18, 1983, a Lufthansa Cargo 742F (D-ABYU) aborted a takeoff (probably at speeds above V1) on runway 13 at Kai Tak. Whether by accident or on purpose, it veered off the runway onto soft ground right at the end of the runway (possibly avoiding a splashdown into the harbour). The nose gear and the wing-mounted main gears collapsed, punching huge holes into the lower fuselage and through to the main cargo deck. All four engines and pylons were also torn from the wings. I remembered it spending almost a year in HKG being rebuilt. Had it not been such a young aircraft at the time (only 2-years old), it would almost certainly have been scrapped.








More pics here: http://www.aviationpics.de/oops/2001/lh_vhhh/lh_vhhh.htm

'949
 
JBirdAV8r
Posts: 3454
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 4:44 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Fri May 23, 2003 4:25 pm

Are there any images out there of DAMAGED aircraft up in the air?? flying or being ferried. Must be remarkable!

Judging from the patchwork I've seen on many, many airplanes...I'm sure there are quite a few in the database!

As for planes flying around "with damage"....I don't think I've seen any. It would be cool to see an airplane flying around with industrial-strength duct tape over a hole in the fuselage  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
shark
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:24 pm

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Fri May 23, 2003 6:16 pm

For the obvious PR reasons (as well as not to upset regular schedules) such ferry flights usually take place at night.


Ferry flights happen whenever needed. If the A/C needs to be ferried the schedules already upset.
 
MD-11 forever
Posts: 550
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:15 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Fri May 23, 2003 7:17 pm

@B747skipper

Although I'm much younger than you, and in a different area of aviation woking, I do agree with your "old fashioned" views regarding the number of engines as the presence of a FE. (...hope you don't mind that I added you on my repected users list!)

Back to topic, I agree with Shark, it doesn't make much sense to wait to ferry a plane until the PR isn't damaged, as I assume a pic of the damaged plane on ground isn't that good PR neither. In my opinion, the aim of any operator is, to bring the plane back to the air ASAP. Since it is obvious that a plane doesn't create any cashflow by just sitting on ground, this should be enough reasons for the operator to do whatever possible to keep the groundtime as short as possible.

Cheers, Thomas
 
Guest

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Fri May 23, 2003 9:40 pm

Thanks, Thomas - old fashion for me, means conservative for safety reasons, that is all. I am not necessarily against airplanes with 2 engines, and without flight engineers, that is for short range operations... but for long range and oceanic routes, 3 and 4 engines, and a crew of three in the flight deck is the best still, sure... new technology is there, but we need also to consider human factors... Extreme long range operations (i.e. 747-400) require a minimum of 3 or 4 crewmembers anyway, because of duty time limitations, so there was no real "gain" by reducing the required crew to 2 pilots in that aircraft...
xxx
All the best, happy contrails  Smile
(s) Skipper
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Fri May 23, 2003 9:54 pm

Ferry flights happen whenever needed. If the A/C needs to be ferried the schedules already upset.

Of course, but you don't want to upset the airport schedule any more than needed (plus landing fees are typically lower at night and the aircraft isn't in a hurry usually).
I wish I were flying
 
MD-11 forever
Posts: 550
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:15 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Fri May 23, 2003 10:06 pm

B747Skipper

I agree 100% with your views (maybe I'm a bit biased, as becoming an F/E was my childhood dream......).

@Jwenting
"Of course, but you don't want to upset the airport schedule any more than needed (plus landing fees are typically lower at night and the aircraft isn't in a hurry usually)."

Might be possible, but I assume that parking fees are not that cheap as well.... As far as I know, our customers usually want to have their planes fixed as soon as possible either at the station where they stranded, or have them ferried to a station capable to repair them as soon as possible. As I said in an earlier answer, only a plane flying makes money......

Cheers, Thomas
 
Dalmd88
Posts: 2390
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Sat May 24, 2003 12:18 am

There has been a lot of talk about Ferry flights in this thrread. Most of the planes mentioned in this thread could not have been ferried. You can't just put some tape over these holes and fly the plane. You also don't ferry with an engine out. The new engine gets shipped to the plane with mtx crew. Any time a plane gets ferried it's done as soon as possible to get it fixed. There is no concern for landing fees or other nonsense. As for PR from a ferry flight, it would look like any other plane taking off.
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Sat May 24, 2003 5:29 am

Dalmd88 - the accident that 737doctor linked to was an engine out ferry flight (707). They discussed this accident in Flying magazines "Aftermath" column several years ago. The PIC was not operating the throttles, which they found unusual because he would be the one to have a better feel for the power requirements, and there was some confusion about the speed at which the rudder would become effective. According to the article, the FE was correct and the captain was wrong. In fact, the aircraft aborted it's initial takeoff attempt. Some other factors were that they were trying to beat a landing curfew at the destination airport, which may have caused them to "rush" the takeoff procedures.
 
JohnM
Posts: 379
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Sat May 24, 2003 11:34 am

I have witnessed a 3 engine ferry flight in which the outboard engine was removed. The outboard engine (can't remember #1 or #4) had an uncontained failure. It looked like somebody had spent an hour with a shotgun shooting up the wing and fusalage. I wasn't involved in the structural issues on this airplane, but I think the pylon attach area of the wing had problems, and it was flown with some big parts removed. This was an AF airplane, and aircrew from Lockheed Georgia got the plane and took it to the plant for repair. Did a fine takeoff, looked like any other typical climbout. Of course minimal fuel so the airplane was very light.
 
Guest

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Sat May 24, 2003 12:59 pm

A 3-engine ferry of a 747 works like this, with outboard engine failed:
Boeing procedure (some airlines change procedure slightly)...
xxx
Maximum takeoff weight not to exceed the maximum landing weight -
Flaps 10 takeoff preferred - Speed "V1" replaced by "VmcG" - typical is 120 kts
F/E sets maximum thrust on inboard engines and 1.2 EPR on operating outboard engine -
Pilot flying lets aircraft accelerate, increases power on outboard engine gradually -
Pilot not flying calls "VmcG" - at which maximum EPR is set (by F/E) -
(go-around EPR is used on that engine since speed is above 80 kts)
Pilot not flying calls VR, positive rate, V2 -
Pilot flying calls "gear up" and lets airplane accelerate to V2+30 to call flaps 5...
xxx
In case of other engine failure, i.e. same side, lower nose immediately to accelerate, retract to flaps 5, do not bank aircraft, if circumstances dictate, push the thrust levers to "firewall"... and bring the flight crew a double whisky on the rocks and a new battery for the captain´s pacemaker...  Big grin
xxx
(s) Skipper




 
Spacepope
Posts: 3136
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Sat May 24, 2003 11:14 pm

IIRC, there was a DC-8 3 engine ferry that ended quite badly back at MCI in the early 90's. I remember them trucking away the wreckage on semis, it was pretty disturbing. I am away and on a slow connection, so if anyone can find a link to the report, it would be greatly appreciated.

T.J.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
Guest

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Sat May 24, 2003 11:28 pm

If I remember well, it was an accident with an ATI aircraft...
Dont remember the specifics, but was a real mess of circumstances...
(s) Skipper
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Sat May 24, 2003 11:34 pm

>>> if anyone can find a link to the report, it would be greatly appreciated.

Uh, it's in reply #21 of this very thread....

We studied this accident in recurrent/CRM; lots of other factors in addition to the obvious ones...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Sun May 25, 2003 12:12 am

One of the more unusual ferry flights I ever heard about was with an AirTran DC-9. The plane was stuck on the ground @ CAK with a MX issue that would not allow it to fly pax: several of the bolts that attach the engine to the pylon were gone, and if I remember correctly, there were only 2 bolts left to hold the engine to the pylon.
 
Guest

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Sun May 25, 2003 12:43 am

There are only 3 bolts holding a 747 engine to its wing-mount attachment...
(s) Skipper  Smile
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Sun May 25, 2003 5:06 am

It would be cool to see an airplane flying around with industrial-strength duct tape

Perhaps you should review pics of UAL 757s then  Big grin
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
AAR90
Posts: 3140
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 11:51 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Sun May 25, 2003 5:26 am

From AAPILOTS website:
---------------
757 STRUCK BY FIRE TRUCK AT SNA

The 757 had pushed back from gate 9 and started engines in preparation for takeoff from SNA. While stopped on taxiway Alpha holding short at taxiway Lima the F/O noticed a fire truck approaching their right side and expected the truck to go around the right wing tip. Unfortunately the fire truck was unmanned and it proceeded to impact the leading edge of the right wing, the right engine cowling and the right fuselage. The running engine was also damaged when it ingested a light that broke off the fire truck.

The following pictures show the damage from the runaway fire truck; an investigation of the incident is ongoing. Fortunately no one was seriously injured although an elderly lady sitting directly above the impact site was shook up.

Jim Kaiser
Manager, Flight Safety/QA
---------------------------
This incident does not show on the daily situation reports. Don't know why, but without some more details I can't track down exactly what maintenance was required/performed. BTW, SNA is a major maintenance station for AA's 737 & 757 fleets. Local maintenance folks can perform everything required (parts driven down from LAX) except that requiring enclosure in a hanger.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Sun May 25, 2003 6:38 am

As for flying with patchwork...


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © José Ramón Valero - IBERIAN SPOTTERS

Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
cloudy
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 3:23 pm

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Sun May 25, 2003 1:21 pm

Southwest has had only one writeoff(or "hull loss"), I believe it was in Burbank...What was the particular damage that caused that 733 to get written off? Or were there just to many little things to fix?

One other thing...who makes the repair/writeoff decision? Is it the insurer, the airline, or the finance company (in the case of leased planes)?
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Sun May 25, 2003 5:59 pm

Re: N668SW, I heard the keel beam was compromised, buckling the fuselage...

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/075094/M/
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
CPH-R
Posts: 6058
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Sun May 25, 2003 10:39 pm

I'd like to see what they did to this one! My guess is that it was written off, or that a hefty repair bill was paid.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Rayyan ALSamadani
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alexander Kueh



Love the comment on the last one  Laugh out loud
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Sun May 25, 2003 10:47 pm

According zo Bill Harms' Census, HZ-AIO was written off: http://www.bird.ch/bharms/boeing/b747_f_0.htm ( >800 kB )
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Guest

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Mon May 26, 2003 2:18 am

I assume many people like "true stories trivia" here about how to fix the damage... here is an extreme situation...
xxx
In China, during WW2 against the Japanese, a DC3 had one wing destroyed on the ground, cannot remember the circumstances, but the aircraft was on the ground, and to fly the aircraft out, they took the wing off a damaged DC2 which happened to be on that airfield, and installed it on that airplane, despite the slight size difference in wing span for the DC2...
xxx
They named that aircraft a "DC2 and 1/2", and flew it out... the book I read about it, has a picture about that airplane (taken from above) showing obvious difference between the size of the left wing and the right wing...
xxx
Happy contrails  Smile
(s) Skipper
 
covert
Posts: 1498
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 1:02 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Mon May 26, 2003 11:34 am

Cloudy, when you whack your car your insurance company will estimate the cost of repairs to the damage and assess it against the vehicles fair market value. If that cost of repairs exceeds the current depreciated value (not book value) they will declare it totaled and will provide a car worth around that value.

With an airplane, if cost of repairs are beyond economical, the aircraft will be written off by Geico Aircraft and financing equal to the amout owed on the lease will be paid the lessor.

As you can see, Insurance is insurance. lol.
none
 
747Teach
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2000 3:05 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Wed May 28, 2003 12:06 am

Jeff714: Most of the pictures you see here are of substantial damage, but you can still tell it's an airplane. If you do a search about a TWA 707 that was hijacked into Damascus on August 29, 1969, you may find a picture of a plane that is almost unrecognizable. The terrorists blew the entire cockpit section completely off the airframe. Boeing built a new nose section, which was taken to Damascus, attached to the rest of the airframe, and the plane was then flown back to Kansas City for a rebuild. The story of the DC-2 1/2 is also worth a search (or buy the book). The DC-2 wing was removed from a DC-2 in Hong Kong and flown to Suifu under the belly of another DC-3. It was attached to the damaged DC-3, which was then flown out by Hal Sweet. That was back when Langhorne Bond was Director of CNAC. Regards,
 
avioniker
Posts: 1099
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 5:38 am

RE: How Do They Fix The Damage?

Wed May 28, 2003 1:52 am

There's one ferry flight I'd love to see a picture of...
There was an STC being developed for a non-Boeing cargo door installation on a 747. The plane was being cut and modded in MIA and nothing was going right. It was finally decided to fly the plane to DHN for the completion of the mod. The area of the fuselage where the hole was cut was shored and covered with lots of plastic and aluminum strapping rivited in place and the plane was flown VFR to DHN at 6000ft. They built a shelter around the aft fuselage and a year later it went into service.

If I'm not mistaken it's still in service as N472EV and the Airworthiness Certificate Type is "experimental" to "Show compliance with FAR".
Incidentally for trivia buffs, this plane has a very close "line number" to the plane that flew TWA flight 800 in 96 and was bought new by TWA.

http://www.landings.com/evird.acgi?pass=54489507&ref=-&mtd=41&cgi=%2Fcgi-bin%2Fnph-search_nnr&var=0&buf=66&src=_landings%2Fpages%2Fsearch_nnr.html&nnumber=472ev
One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ams747757 and 37 guests