BR715-A1-30
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When Did The MD-80 Ever Have JT8D-209 Engines?

Thu May 29, 2003 7:19 am

I have read in various sources (including this website) that the MD-81 is powered by JT8D-209 engines. Yet when I look on the Jet Aircraft Census, There is no mention of any MD-80 powered by any JT8D-209. All I see are JT8D-217, and JT8D-219.

What's the deal here?
Puhdiddle
 
scxmechanic
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RE: When Did The MD-80 Ever Have JT8D-209 Engines?

Thu May 29, 2003 12:07 pm

I worked on a few MD-80s that had the -209 motors... They were some of the first MD-80's off the production line.

I think now most -209 motors have all been converted to the -217 standard as they were overhauled. Not sure what all that entails. But its the same basic motor. So most mods would be internal.


If I recall correctly, the -209 had 18,500lbs of thrust vs. the 20,000+ for the other variants. So the ones powered by -209's were a bit under powered. I wonder if the -209 was fitted with the ARTS System as the MD-88 and others have?
 
scxmechanic
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RE: When Did The MD-80 Ever Have JT8D-209 Engines?

Thu May 29, 2003 12:16 pm

I just did a search on speednews and I couldn't find one -209 motor listed for sale or lease.. Loads of basic JT8D's and -217/219's.
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: When Did The MD-80 Ever Have JT8D-209 Engines?

Thu May 29, 2003 1:02 pm

I must not, I must not, I must not...... point out that the DC-9-80 has not motors but engines. But I will.

Sorry, I just could not resist, I'm feeling silly and picky tonight.

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
FBU 4EVER!
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RE: When Did The MD-80 Ever Have JT8D-209 Engines?

Thu May 29, 2003 8:42 pm

Most of the Swissair MD-80's were powered by -209's.The last 4 or 5 delivered had -217's,though.
"Luck and superstition wins all the time"!
 
scxmechanic
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RE: When Did The MD-80 Ever Have JT8D-209 Engines?

Fri May 30, 2003 3:41 am

IMissPiedmont,

Get a grip.. Motors or engines.. Who cares? You call them what you want, I will call them what I want. But make no mistake. I'm sure everyone knows what each of us are talking about...

Why is everyone so picky on here? Maybe I should just refrain from sharing any info I have if its gonna be picked apart for terminology.
 
dc10hound
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RE: When Did The MD-80 Ever Have JT8D-209 Engines?

Fri May 30, 2003 4:49 am

I must not, I must not, I must not...... point out that the DC-9-80 has not motors but engines. But I will.

I know it's an old one, but:

Ever hear about the F100s that someone installed CFM-56 "motors" on rather than RR Tay?

No there are little "motor" Fokkers and...







BIG "MOTOR" FOKKERS.
 Smile/happy/getting dizzy  Smile/happy/getting dizzy



I could not ressist...
"Eagles soar. But weasels never get sucked into jet intakes.."
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: When Did The MD-80 Ever Have JT8D-209 Engines?

Fri May 30, 2003 5:55 am

@dc10hound: LOL.

And....um, sorry guys...All airplanes have motors. Isn't a motor something that imparts motion on something else? Last I heard, that's what these powerplants do.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: When Did The MD-80 Ever Have JT8D-209 Engines?

Fri May 30, 2003 11:30 am

Of course they are motors, What do you think starts the engine. A Motor has to start the fan turning. (The air comes from the APU, but a motor starts to turn the fan.)
Puhdiddle
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: When Did The MD-80 Ever Have JT8D-209 Engines?

Fri May 30, 2003 11:35 am

48008 981 MD-81 JT8D-217C 07/01/81 AERO REPUBLICA (FINO) HK-4237X HB-INI, OY-KII, N480AC
48009 985 MD-81 JT8D-217C 06/20/81 AERO REPUBLICA (FINO) HK-4238X HB-INK, SE-DMZ, N489NC
48004 950 MD-81 JT8D-217C 11/23/80 AERO REPUBLICA (FINO) HK-4255 HB-INE, OY-KIK, N834F
48005 957 MD-81 JT8D-217C 01/28/81 AERO REPUBLICA (FINO) HK-4259 HB-INF, SE-DMU, N835F
48002 938 MD-81 JT8D-217C 09/12/80 AERO REPUBLICA (FINO) HK-

Some of these are the earliest MD80s delivered, and they sport JT8D-217 engines.

Also, Is it true that -209 engines were louder than the -217A/C, and -219 engines.

Also, Did P & W ever produce a JT8D-218. It was originally thought that these would power the 717, before the RR BR715 was chosen.
Puhdiddle
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: When Did The MD-80 Ever Have JT8D-209 Engines?

Fri May 30, 2003 1:01 pm

Humour continues to escape some on this site.

Let me just clarify a bit. Motors are powered by electricity, engines by fuel of some sort.

Dictionaries are real cheap guys.

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
scxmechanic
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RE: When Did The MD-80 Ever Have JT8D-209 Engines?

Fri May 30, 2003 10:05 pm

IMissPiedmont,

Here is your dictionary definition of a MOTOR (www.dictionary.com)

mo·tor

(1) Something, such as a machine or an engine, that produces or imparts motion.

(2) A device that converts any form of energy into mechanical energy, especially an internal-combustion engine or an arrangement of coils and magnets that converts electric current into mechanical power.

(3) A motor vehicle, especially an automobile: “It was a night of lovers. All along the highway... motors were parked and dim figures were clasped in revery” (Sinclair Lewis).


BR715-A1-30,

If you would have read my post, I said that -209 motors were fitted to the earliest models of the MD-80. And most if not all have been converted to the -217 standard. Those aircraft you listed have had many motor changes over the years.
 
FBU 4EVER!
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RE: When Did The MD-80 Ever Have JT8D-209 Engines?

Fri May 30, 2003 10:19 pm

It was mentioned by BR715 in one of the preceding posts that some of the earliest MD-80's now sports -217 engines.That's true.They were modified before SAS leased them so as to have a more similar performance to our other MD's in use.
Whether this entails an entire engine change or just "a turn of a screw" on the Fuel Control Unit I don't know.JT8D-217A's are a different engine physically than the -217C,which is a de-rated -219.These two later versions are identical,all you have to do is make an adjustment on the FCU and turn the engine data plate back-to-front;it is printed with -217C data on one side and -219 data on the other.Simple! Oh,and yes,you pay a lot of $$$ to McD/Boeing for the conversion license!
"Luck and superstition wins all the time"!
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: When Did The MD-80 Ever Have JT8D-209 Engines?

Fri May 30, 2003 10:20 pm

Let me just clarify a bit. Motors are powered by electricity, engines by fuel of some sort.

There are wires that run into an engine which power the motor to get the fan turning. I know that fuel does not keep that fan spinning throughout the flight. Now Fuel does power it in the fact that the fuel produces the thrust necessary for flight.
Puhdiddle
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: When Did The MD-80 Ever Have JT8D-209 Engines?

Sat May 31, 2003 1:06 pm

It appears that my 30 year old dictionary and teaching may need an update. Funny how a "motor" was defined 30 years ago as an electric device and an "engine" as powered by fuel. But then I remember when "ain't" was not in any dictionary.

Mea Culpa. The language changes.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
exPratt
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RE: When Did The MD-80 Ever Have JT8D-209 Engines?

Tue Jun 03, 2003 3:52 am

The original MD-80s were delivered with JT8D-209s. However, it wasn't too long into the airplane's production run that they were delivered with the D-217s. All of the JT8D-209s were subsequently converted to D-217s. The change required a shop visit to replace the turbines. The most significant change was installation of the air cooled HPT, although the LPT was also replaced to restagger the airfoils for the higher thrust levels. The -217, -217A, and -217C all have the same thrust rating. THe -217C and -219 are in fact the same engine, but have a reversible data plate so an operator can use the higher thrust rating of the D-219 with an adjustment to the fuel control. As FBU pointed out, there is a charge to use the higher thrust rating. It is interesting to note that the later stages of the LPC and the entire HPC on the Green Weenies are common with the basic JT8D. Although the parts could be physically interchangeble, they have different LCF lives and thus have different part numbers to keep them separate for life tracking.

BR715, there never was a JT8D-218 engine. At the time the engine proposal was being developed for the 717, which at that time was known as an MD-95, the engine designation within P&W was a JT8D-290.

And BR715, fuel is the only thing that keeps an engine turning. No fuel, no power. Electric starters are not used on transports like the 717 and larger as it would draw too much current. Air-driven starters that are attached to the gearbox that drive the HPC are used to start the engines. About 2/3s to 3/4s of the energy released in the combustor is used solely to drive the turbines to turn the fan and compressors and the remainder is thrust.
 
dc10hound
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RE: When Did The MD-80 Ever Have JT8D-209 Engines?

Tue Jun 03, 2003 11:29 am

It appears that my 30 year old dictionary and teaching may need an update. Funny how a "motor" was defined 30 years ago as an electric device and an "engine" as powered by fuel. But then I remember when "ain't" was not in any dictionary.

Mea Culpa. The language changes.


OK. But find me a maintenance manual of any large transport category that refers to a turbine engine as a "motor".....

I'll be surprised if one does.

 Big grin
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BR715-A1-30
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RE: When Did The MD-80 Ever Have JT8D-209 Engines?

Tue Jun 03, 2003 11:44 am

Expratt,

Thanks for that information.

Thanks to everyone else for their replies too.

BTW -- So Basically a -217C is a -219 in which the C must stand for CONVERTIBLE.

[Edited 2003-06-03 04:45:02]
Puhdiddle
 
exPratt
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RE: When Did The MD-80 Ever Have JT8D-209 Engines?

Wed Jun 04, 2003 4:12 am

BR715,

The 217 model number for the D-217, 217A, and 217C shows that they all have the same thrust rating. The 'C' just shows that it was a different model. I think they left the gap between the A and the C models to leave room for a 'B' model if there was ever an upgrade to the -217A. I don't think anyone at Pratt ever thought of the 'C' standing for convertible. That said, I am sure that there are people in the industry that have other words that begin with 'C' other than convertible when discussing a JT8D-200 engine.
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: When Did The MD-80 Ever Have JT8D-209 Engines?

Sun Apr 24, 2005 8:59 pm

Pedantic note:

Nothing wrong with describing a gas turbine engine as a motor. The word motor is derived from the Latin verb meaning to move. An engine is a machine, not necessarily providing motive power. So when you talk about engines in aircraft terms it's really shorthand for "gas turbine engine", "internal combustion engine", etc.

The word motor is usually used to mean electrically or hydraulically driven devices. But, in nautical terms a Motor Vessel (MV) is driven by a diesel or petrol engine.

So an engine can be a motor, and a motor is an engine.

Confusing isn't it  Smile
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SATL382G
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RE: When Did The MD-80 Ever Have JT8D-209 Engines?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:00 am

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 10):
Motors are powered by electricity



Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 14):
It appears that my 30 year old dictionary and teaching may need an update. Funny how a "motor" was defined 30 years ago as an electric device and an "engine" as powered by fuel. But then I remember when "ain't" was not in any dictionary.

Somebody better tell General Motors they got the name wrong and a long time ago too....  Smile

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 3):
Sorry, I just could not resist, I'm feeling silly and picky tonight

You should have resisted.....
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
Dalmd88
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RE: When Did The MD-80 Ever Have JT8D-209 Engines?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:59 am

Most old A&P instructors will kick you out of class if you call an aircraft engine a motor. Back to the topic only the DC-9-81 had the option of-209 engines.
 
LAXintl
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RE: When Did The MD-80 Ever Have JT8D-209 Engines?

Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:00 am

The early PSA MD-80's were delivered with the -209, with later versions having the -217. By the early 90s and following the US Air takeover all aircraft eventualy had the -217.
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