mirrodie
Posts: 6789
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

Aircraft Control Sticks

Mon Jun 30, 2003 7:11 am

I pose this question to all you designers, mechanics, engineers and pilots... in other words, those of you who know better than I.

I know how Airbus has a stick for pitch, yaw and roll.

I recall reading an artical in the paper within the last 6 weeks stating that there is a possibility that this "stick" control may one day SOON replace the steering wheel in cars.

I recall it saying that the stick would control the turning of the wheels as well as forward/backward movement.

What are your thoughts on this? Is it possible (im sure it is) But is it feasible? WIll it catch on?

I wonder/ask you if there are any pros/cons to having a steering wheel vs a stick.

I appreciate your insightful comments.
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
sushka
Posts: 4657
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 1999 12:33 am

RE: Aircraft Control Sticks

Mon Jun 30, 2003 7:23 am

Sitcks in cars!??! Hmm... No thanks!!

I prefer sticks in planes over yokes. I think they need less controlling than a yoke.
Pershoyu Spravoyu Litaki!
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Aircraft Control Sticks

Mon Jun 30, 2003 8:23 am

Works for skid steer loaders and other construction equipment!  Smile Steering is not accomplished through steerable wheels in that case, though.

Besides, didn't Mercedes try it on a concept car a couple years back?

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Leezyjet
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Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 7:26 am

RE: Aircraft Control Sticks

Mon Jun 30, 2003 10:04 am

This technology has been possible for a number of years now, but there is some kind of rule/regulation that states that there must be a mechanical linkage between the steering control (i.e. wheel) and the wheels, this is also the same for the brakes too I believe.

I would imagine that until these regulations are changed then we won't be seeing any significant changes in car control for a while, but we have in the last few years started to see more and more semi-automatic cars come onto the market (those that have manual gears but don't require a clutch to change gear - like the paddle shift gears on some performance cars)

There will also be those few that won't want to change (kind of like those who don't want to change from a control column to a side stick for example).

 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
707CMF
Posts: 4698
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2002 5:39 pm

RE: Aircraft Control Sticks

Mon Jun 30, 2003 2:57 pm

Aer you sure the article was not speaking about stick in cars, but rather 'drive by wire ?'

Antoine
 
erj-145mech
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2001 4:21 am

RE: Aircraft Control Sticks

Mon Jun 30, 2003 9:57 pm

"I know how Airbus has a stick for pitch, yaw and roll. "

I didn't know that sticks also controlled yaw, I've only flown aircraft that the stick controlled pitch and roll, rudder pedals control yaw.

Dave
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6789
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

RE: Aircraft Control Sticks

Mon Jun 30, 2003 10:39 pm

"in other words, those of you who know better than I."- Uh, thanks for the needless sarcasm Dave. Sorry for the mistake  Insane



Actually, the article was not talking about drive by wire. (To my knowledge, Volvo's began using a form of "drive by wire" in the S80 a few years ago.

So really, my question is whether or not we will truly see steering wheels replced in cars in the near future.
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
FredT
Posts: 2166
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2002 9:51 pm

RE: Aircraft Control Sticks

Mon Jun 30, 2003 10:42 pm

In a sense it does right, since you are essentialy free of having to mess with the pedals most of the time? The stick is what you use to tell the aircraft to go where you want it to, the pedals are used to make it do it with style.

Yes, it is getting very close to philosophy.  Big grin

Cheers,
Fred
I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
 
FredT
Posts: 2166
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RE: Aircraft Control Sticks

Mon Jun 30, 2003 10:49 pm

On the question asked, I do not think we'll see a stick controlling the speed anytime soon. I for one would not like to hold the accelerator down/forward with my hand all the time. I like being able to move my hands about while hurtling down the freeway.

As for getting rid of the steering wheel, it'd be a huge safety improvement for starters. So, if they can make them robust enough for car use (which is rather less maintenance intense than aviation, to put it mildly) I think it will appear.

I could picture myself driving using a stick and "DBW" tech. It'd have to be linked with the speed of course. Full stick deflection must mean full steering when parking but it'd be rather jittery on the freeway.  Smile

Cheers,
Fred
I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
 
bobrayner
Posts: 2038
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:03 am

RE: Aircraft Control Sticks

Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:01 pm

Wouldn't it be hard to reconcile a stick with an airbag?
Not impossible, though.

It'd have to be linked with the speed of course. Full stick deflection must mean full steering when parking but it'd be rather jittery on the freeway.

Not necessarily. Why not have a distinction between Freeway Law and Parking Law?  Smile
(perhaps like the "girly button" in the Fiat Punto)
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saintsman
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:34 am

RE: Aircraft Control Sticks

Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:05 pm

It would make things easier for James Bond - the trigger for his machine guns would be at hand so to speak.

More seriously are there problems with left and right handed people? It could be a safer option too. No steering wheel to ram you in the chest in an accident. However it would need to be positioned so that both hands are in a position to hold it otherwise you would never be able to let go, even for a moment. That sort of position is not likely to be comfortable and would put too much strain on the hands and arms.
 
FredT
Posts: 2166
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2002 9:51 pm

RE: Aircraft Control Sticks

Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:19 pm

I was picturing a consolemounted stick. The airbag would be under the instruments, similar to how they're mounted on the passenger side. A lot safer in a crash.

Of course, that'd make it rather hard to drive with your outboard hand. A significant drawback. An aircraft style center stick would not be good either.

Left/righthandedness would not be a problem though. People are coping with shifting gears both in the civilised world and in the left-hand driving UK...  Big grin

(Any threats by UK residents are to be mailed together with a bottle of good British ale in suitable protective packaging) Big grin

There are already normal wheel-controlled cars with variable steering ration depending on speed so I think it is a rather usable idea.  Big grin

Cheers,
Fred
I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
 
il75
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 7:35 pm

RE: Aircraft Control Sticks

Wed Jul 02, 2003 4:23 am

There are already concept cars with no steering wheel. These cars (rolling during development in the streets of Detroit -- GM's Hy-Wire-- and Turin -- Bertone's Novanta) have an electronic driving unit with two yokes that replace the wheel and all three pedals. No steering column no mechanical link between controls and engine/actuators. Completely drive-by-wire. In one of these cars the driving unit could be moved to any side of the car and you could even drive the car from the back seat!
The question is if people -- and the authorities -- are ready to accept driving a car with yokes and braking with a thumb.
But these cars are already a reality.

Make a search (Hy-wire and Bertone Novanta) for more details.

regards
erico

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