madviking
Posts: 125
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AC 744 With No Port Wing Tip?

Wed Aug 20, 2003 1:12 am

Just saw AC161 depart 24R for YVR from YYZ. This 747-400 had no port side wing tip. The starboard side was clearly visible but I am 100% certain the port was not. Is this possible? She departed at approx. 11:40 EST today Aug.19. The aircraft is only 30 min. airborne as I type!
 
goboeing
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RE: AC 744 With No Port Wing Tip?

Wed Aug 20, 2003 1:18 am

Do you mean no winglet? If this is the case, maybe someone who knows about the 747 MEL can see if a winglet is able to be MEL'd? I say this because someone mentioned that if the 767-400 is missing a winglet because of damage, the other can be removed and the flight can be continued.

Nick
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: AC 744 With No Port Wing Tip?

Wed Aug 20, 2003 1:21 am

Goboeing,

I think there was a discussion a few months ago on this very topic, and I think the 744 winglet is a MEL'd item. I think in the case of the 744 that the other can be left attached and it can still be dispatched. As the raked wing extensions on a 764 are of a different design, they probably both need to be removed.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
avioniker
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RE: AC 744 With No Port Wing Tip?

Wed Aug 20, 2003 1:24 am

Actually it's in the CDL
One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
 
cdfmxtech
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RE: AC 744 With No Port Wing Tip?

Wed Aug 20, 2003 1:32 am

On the B767-400, both raed wingtips must be removed for dispatch if one is bad.
 
madviking
Posts: 125
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 11:37 am

RE: AC 744 With No Port Wing Tip?

Wed Aug 20, 2003 1:39 am

Yes Goboeing, I meant winglet. Sitting in my office I saw with my binocs. that clearly the port side was missing yet the starboard was there. It is a clear sunny day here. No mistake!
 
Rick767
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RE: AC 744 With No Port Wing Tip?

Wed Aug 20, 2003 1:44 am

One winglet on a 744 can be removed and the aircraft still be dispatched. A British Airways 747-400 flew around in this condition for several weeks I recall after the starboard winglet was damaged and removed.

The fuel penalty was in the order of 4% I recall being told by those in the know.
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
citationjet
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RE: AC 744 With No Port Wing Tip?

Wed Aug 20, 2003 7:03 am

I was told by engineers at Aviation Partners that the 747-400 can be dispatched with one winglet removed.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
N6376M
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RE: AC 744 With No Port Wing Tip?

Wed Aug 20, 2003 8:58 am

In addition to the weight penalty, does the missing winglet cause any other adverse control conditions (i.e. adverse yaw)?
 
goboeing
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RE: AC 744 With No Port Wing Tip?

Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:24 am

It seems like the plane should yaw towards the wingtip with the winglet missing, since there would be slightly more drag. But would this be noticeable, does anyone know?

Nick
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: AC 744 With No Port Wing Tip?

Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:40 am

Alright, alright Avioniker...you got me on a technicality.... Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Yes, I suppose as an airplane with one winglet is certainly in a different configuration than one with two winglets, then the item would be on the CDL (or for those not versed in technical abbreviations, the Configuration Deviation List).

 Big thumbs up
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
suspen
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RE: AC 744 With No Port Wing Tip?

Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:40 am

'bout time someone posted the famous missing winglet pic... Yes the 744 can fly with only one and someone got it on film  Smile
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Photo © Yo Tanaka

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citationjet
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RE: AC 744 With No Port Wing Tip?

Wed Aug 20, 2003 10:43 am

Does that make it a 747-350????
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
madviking
Posts: 125
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RE: AC 744 With No Port Wing Tip?

Tue Aug 26, 2003 11:23 am

It's aircraft 341, AC's first 744. On Sat I saw it arrive from LHR, as AC849 landing on 33L. Today, Monday it was at their hangar at Pearson but in the evening departed to Frankfurt as AC872.
 
MikeNE3
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RE: AC 744 With No Port Wing Tip?

Tue Aug 26, 2003 3:50 pm

We flew home from Antigua (November 1998) on a BA 747-400 which had to have the port winglet removed prior to the TAPA-EGLL leg as the pilot who had flown the plane in from TLPL managed to prang the winglet on a lamp-post while taxiing to the stand at V C Bird. The pilot for the trans Atlantic leg was able to requisistion more fuel and make the journey with the starboard winglet still attached so I assume this is a standard practice when the winglet cannot be quickly replaced.

Mike
 
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Aaron747
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RE: AC 744 With No Port Wing Tip?

Tue Aug 26, 2003 11:45 pm

Any increase in drag on the port side could easily be trimmed out. It's not a problem.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
N243NW
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RE: AC 744 With No Port Wing Tip?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 2:57 am

Here are some more pictures of 747-350s  Laugh out loud. As you can see, it is not uncommon for 744s to fly around while one winglet is in for repairs.

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chris Coduto



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Christopher Smay



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Christopher Smay


-N243NW Big grin
B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.
 
OE-LDA
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RE: AC 744 With No Port Wing Tip?

Wed Aug 27, 2003 3:25 am

Correct me if I am wrong, but an idea just came to my mind:

If there is only a winglet on the right wind, the parasite drag will create a momentum (yaw) to the right side. But with the winglet on the right wing the induced drag on this wing is reduced, which will create a momentum to the left. Now which momentum will be larger depends on the airspeed. The larger the airspeed, the more should the momentum be to the right side, as the parasite drag (to the right) increases with airspeed, and the induced drag (to the left) decreases with airspeed.

I know, that's a wild theory. Now where are the flight instructors to falsify it?

Regards anyway, OE-LDA
I am totally missing basics and clueless about airline flying!

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