tarzanboy
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2003 8:18 am

Can A 747 Survive On One Engine?

Mon Sep 22, 2003 11:33 am

hi.,..

can a 747-400 survive on one engine if three fails?

can an l1011 survive on one engine?
 
411A
Posts: 1788
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2001 10:34 am

RE: Can A 747 Survive On One?

Mon Sep 22, 2003 11:51 am

A Lockheed L1011 can indeed remain airbourne with two engines inoperative, provided the weight is reasonable.
In addition, on approach, a go-around is possible (again at reasonable weights) provided the maneuver is begun at no less than 800agl.

The single engine approach/landing is done each six months in the simulator for training/check purposes, for Captains only.
 
POSITIVE RATE
Posts: 2121
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2001 11:31 am

RE: Can A 747 Survive On One?

Mon Sep 22, 2003 1:42 pm

As i recall there was an Eastern L1011 that had to do just that. It was flying somewhere in the Carribean when all 3 engines failed and the crew managed to restart 1(i think number 2) and limped back to the airport on 1 engine alone.
 
Guest

RE: Can A 747 Survive On One?

Mon Sep 22, 2003 1:45 pm

Allthough not a requirement, but yes the 747 could fly on one angine.
Again, what our friend 411A answered as far as weight is concerned, the same does apply to the 747, it would have to be light.
xxx
Four engine airplanes flight crew training does not include this, as a required maneuver, we have to fly on two engines, but I have done "single engine" approaches in a 747 simulator many times, with number 1 or number 4 as the only engine operating.
xxx
Incidentally, all 3 engine airplanes i.e. DC-10, 727, Falcon 50 must be able to be flown on 1 engine.
xxx
Happy contrails  Smile
(s) Skipper
 
cptkrell
Posts: 3186
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 10:50 pm

RE: Can A 747 Survive On One?

Mon Sep 22, 2003 2:55 pm

Not entirely germain (sp?) to the question, but semi-relative, my best school buddy (who is now mustering out of 727 freighters) and I were talking a couple of days ago about two single-engine 72 circumstances. Also, somewhere, in the basement, I have an airshow publicity photo of EAL CPT neighbor executing an airshow single-engine pass in new (195?) L188 Electra; not much weight, of course, but impressive nontheless. I should not want to have a ticket on B747Skipper's single engine excursion, but if the chance ever arose, I'm sure I'd be with the best man I could hope for...jack
all best; jack
 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:42 am

RE: Can A 747 Survive On One?

Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:40 am

A 747 can and has survived on one engine. I forget what the circumstances were, but a Pan Am 747 made an emergency landing in Tokyo with one engine remaining. Needless to say, there was no go around.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
Buzz
Posts: 694
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:44 pm

RE: Can A 747 Survive On One?

Tue Sep 23, 2003 10:46 pm

Hi TarzanBoy, Buzz here. I recall a story from the late '80s (yes, in the previous century) about a 747-123 that UAL had bought and overhauled. We called 'em the "Lemon Sisters". The -123 series was orginally built for American, these 4 had been through a few owners before UAL bought 'em. As i recall the 4 airframes cost about 64 million... half the price of a new one. To say that the airframes needed work was to put it mildly.

Anyway, one fuel gauge was deferred per MEL. After takeoff the #2 main tank crossfeed failed closed. Normally on climbout the engines feed off the center tank first, then #2 and #3 main, then when the tanks are about equal they go tank-to-engine.

About 3/4 of the way from SFO to NRT the hard working flight engineer discovered his math was wrong and there would be fuel problems. I understand that that Lemon Sister flew the approach into NRT on #2 engine and APU, with all the pax in life vests.

"Don't try this at home", once you've built up your airspeed and altitude you have some options. At PDX one day a Falcon 20 tried a single engine takeoff (planning to air start after takeoff?) He lifted off in ground effect. As the end of the runway passed below him and he was still looking up at the streetlights of the employee parking lot he decided to slide into the grass of the over-run instead of hitting something harder.
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgement.

g'day
Buzz Fuselsausage: LIne Mechanic by night, DC-3 Crew Chief by Choice, taildragger pilot for fun.
 
GroundStop
Posts: 607
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 12:48 am

RE: Can A 747 Survive On One?

Wed Sep 24, 2003 11:35 am

The Eastern L1011 was flying from MIA to NAS when they had engine trouble. They elected to turn back to MIA and indeed landed with only the #2 engine lit.
 
ExPanAmer
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2001 10:06 am

RE: Can A 747 Survive On One?

Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:38 pm

Don't forget the United 747 out of HNL (not 100% sure) that had the front cargo door blow off.Number 3 and 4 are out,a big hole in the side,various systems failures and still a controlled, successful landing at the airport with all that water just wanting to give that bird a bath!
 
L-188
Posts: 29870
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Can A 747 Survive On One?

Fri Sep 26, 2003 4:31 pm

If memory serves. That BA747 that ran into the Ash cloud over Malaysia in the early 80's was preparing to ditch when they finally got one to relight.

That was enough to keep them airborne, eventually they got clear enough air to get all four relight.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Triple Seven
Posts: 518
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2000 10:04 pm

RE: Can A 747 Survive On One Engine?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 12:49 am

L-188,

The BA 747 was actually flying from Kuala Lumpur to Melbourne when it ran over the volcanic ash clouds somewhere over Indonesia.
 
Guest

RE: Can A 747 Survive On One Engine?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 2:02 am

Ever since that BA 747 incident over Indonesia, Boeing has incorporated a "volcanic ash" relight procedure in their QRH... the "quick reference handbook" which contains check lists, and all essential abnormal or emergency procedures for the 747.
xxx
Due to a clever design, one feature of the 747 hydraulic systems (4 systems) can all be operated normally (for flight controls), although with some reduction in pressure and flow, as if the 4 engines were operating. Even windmilling engines can produce some amount of hydraulic pressure. A great concept... In the old days, the loss of a certain engines (inboard engines) i.e. 707, DC-8, created partial hydraulic system failures. The 747 does not have that problem.
xxx
The problem with JAL 123 was totally different in nature, the 4 hydraulic systems were fully depleted, by failure of the aft pressure bulkhead... Al Haynes should have been in command of JAL 123... HE would have brought that airplane back, probably... (Al Haynes, DC-10 UAL, Sioux City)...
xxx
Happy contrails  Smile
(s) Skipper
 
Triple Seven
Posts: 518
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2000 10:04 pm

RE: Can A 747 Survive On One Engine?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 4:21 am

B747skipper,

Were the early model 747s (-100/-200/perhaps SP) designed so that its engine would sever away from its pylon in an emergency rather than to have it create drags caused by windmilling??
 
Guest

RE: Can A 747 Survive On One Engine?

Sat Sep 27, 2003 7:09 am

Dear friend triple Seven:
xxx
I never heard that... the concept of "engine pods" and "pylons" was that airplanes could loose an engine (torned off) from the wing, without much damage to the wing's integrity... I have a friend who had that experience with an old 747 in Anchorage, some 8 years ago, the engine separated from the wing, fell in the city (near a gas station), but he brought the airplane back. to a safe landing, no casualties.
xxx
A windmilling engine causes drag, obvious, but a 747 flies fine with a failed engine. I am "3 engine ferry qualified" and I have flown, from A to B, 747 with a failed engine, taking off... three times in my "notorious career". There is a complete procedure to do that, the engine N1 (fan) rotation can be secured by belts (the type used to secure freight pallets) - or with an engine plug (cover) - it is no problem, really.
xxx
Happy contrails  Smile
(s) Skipper



 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:42 am

RE: Can A 747 Survive On One Engine?

Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:34 am

The Eastern L1011 was flying from MIA to NAS when they had engine trouble. They elected to turn back to MIA and indeed landed with only the #2 engine lit.

I remember that! The problem was that oil seal rings were not replaced by mechanics after engine work. They were damn lucky to get #2 lit! Thats about as close as a widebody has ever come to ditching in the Atlantic.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], sccutler and 18 guests