tarzanboy
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2003 8:18 am

When To Land With The Lights?

Mon Dec 08, 2003 1:11 am

guys..

the airline pros...

i sometimes notice that on approach, the pilot hit the landing lights on quite late...

is there a special time according to the REGULATIONS when the light must go on?

what if you are not in the pattern and somewhere 30 miles inbound, can you still have the landing lights on?

what if the weather if extremely bad, poor visibility and stuff, can the light go on for recognition purposes?? (take into consideration the A/C isn't equipped with Recognition lights...

thanks./.
 
sushka
Posts: 4657
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 1999 12:33 am

RE: When To Land With The Lights?

Mon Dec 08, 2003 1:39 am

Below 10,000 ft the landing light has to be on.

If the plane is in IMC it is recomended to swich off some lights.
Pershoyu Spravoyu Litaki!
 
AAR90
Posts: 3140
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 11:51 am

RE: When To Land With The Lights?

Mon Dec 08, 2003 4:55 am

...is there a special time according to the REGULATIONS when the light must go on?

I am unaware of any government regulation controlling use of landing lights. AA policy says: "Operation LIGHTS ON is a voluntary FAA safety program encouraging use of aircraft external lights to enhance the see-and-avoid concept."

AA policy further states: "Landing Lights - turn on after takeoff clearance is received and the aircraft is on the active runway (across the hold line). Turn off after takeoff at the Captain's discretion." Translated that means after takeoff use of landing lights is solely at Captain's discretion.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
FBU 4EVER!
Posts: 980
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:53 am

RE: When To Land With The Lights?

Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:26 am

No clear rules regarding LANDING LIGHTS usage.Even here in SAS,there are as many personal operational interpretations as there are captains.Usually,we turn them on when receiving take-off clearance and turn them off when gear is retracted and a bird hazard does not exist any more.Birds seem to react against artificial light;most (not all) of my birdstrikes have happened with the landing lights off!
I turn them on again when landing clearance has been received,though not later than 500 feet above ground level.In foggy conditions I leave the nose landing light off or in dim position,as opposed to bright.(MD-80/90)
We have another set of lights,ground flood lights or runway turn-off lights.We keep these on until passing 10,000 feet and turn them on again at this level when descending.Many pilots,including me,keep them on for longer periods than this in crowded airspace,i.e. near LHR,CDG,FRA,etc.
"Luck and superstition wins all the time"!
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6026
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: When To Land With The Lights?

Mon Dec 08, 2003 9:15 am

Climbing or descending at any time of day, our company policy is to have the landing lights on. At night, around 1500ft or 1000ft on approach we will also turn on the other lights i.e. nose light, taxi light, runway turnoffs, so we are landing with all the lights on (Apart from the wing light). Departing at night we also have all the lights on, and they will be switched off at around 3000ft during the climbout.
 
GE
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2000 5:01 pm

RE: When To Land With The Lights?

Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:40 am

Hi Cx flyboy,
When then would you turn on the wing lights? Thanks.
 
ThirtyEcho
Posts: 1409
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 1:21 am

RE: When To Land With The Lights?

Tue Dec 09, 2003 5:09 am

As Ernie Gann said regarding lights, "Why not? The electricity is free."

I turn the landing lights on any time I'm in a high traffic environment.
 
beechcraft
Posts: 731
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2003 2:10 am

RE: When To Land With The Lights?

Tue Dec 09, 2003 7:21 am

Hi,
our policy is landings lights on anytime below FL100.
They are switched on receiving T/O clearance.
We´re additionally swichting on the taxi lights when we receive landing clearance.

maybe that helps,

regards

Denis
That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!
 
BR715-A1-30
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: When To Land With The Lights?

Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:22 am

"Why not? The electricity is free."

Electricity is not free. It is provided by Battery (Which cost money to replace)
It is provided by APU which uses fuel which costs money
It is provided by Engine power which in time wears, costs fuel which costs money.

As my Economics teacher said TINSTAAFL
There Is No Such Thing As A Free Lunch = There is a cost associated with everything. so reply to this post and get a free gift

must pay shipping
Puhdiddle
 
jjbiv
Posts: 1203
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 10:58 am

RE: When To Land With The Lights?

Tue Dec 09, 2003 2:13 pm

What's the cost of not being "seen and avoided"? From an economics perspective, there indeed may not be a free lunch, however, from an analytic perspective, the cost may closely approximate free if the opportunity cost (to use another econ. term) is orders of magnitude larger than the monetary cost which lessens the frequency of having to realize said opportunity cost.

Not the easiest thing in the world to understand, but picking the right framework for analysis is more than half the battle.

joe
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6026
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: When To Land With The Lights?

Tue Dec 09, 2003 7:19 pm

GE,

The wings lights are more for inspection purposes for the crew rather than for identification to other aircraft. If we are departing in icing conditions at night, then I will turn on the wing lights to check the condition of the wing before we depart.
However, in places like Mumbai, where there is a badly lit cross runway and very bad ATC, I like to switch on ALL the lights crossing the runway and especially when back tracking on the active, and in this case I will turn on the wing light also, but otherwise it hardly gets used.
 
JBirdAV8r
Posts: 3454
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 4:44 am

RE: When To Land With The Lights?

Tue Dec 09, 2003 7:29 pm

BR715-A1-30, I have another saying for you:

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

My general operating rules:

Landing lights on when:
1. On the runway and cleared for takeoff
2. Climbing or descending
3. Maneuvering
4. Traffic assistance (if someone is looking for my aircraft/I'm looking for someone, I'll turn it on to help the other guy acquire me)
5. Entire flight when I'm not talking to anyone
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
Guest

RE: When To Land With The Lights?

Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:43 am

All of our aircraft have a "pulse light" system installed. This system flashed the landing lights. Landing light use is always at the discretion of the PIC. We typically run the lights as follows:
Daytime:
Taxi light at PIC's discretion while moving on the ramp and taxiways.
Upper anti collision beacon - ON
Position Lights - ON
Upon taking active runway for takeoff we turn on the landing light to pulse mode, turn on both upper and lower anti collision beacons, and the wingtip and tail strobes, and the taxi light. The wing inspection light comes on as well. Basically, anything that gives of light is turned on except for the tail "logo light" (You can't see it any way.)

The taxi light is mounted on the nose wheel and is turned off when the gear is retracted. The inspection light is turned off at the PIC's discretion and the pulse lights are left on at all times below FL180.

Night time:
The same as daytime with the following exceptions:
Landing lights are selected ON (verses "Pulse") when taking the runway for takeoff. They are selected to Pulse once the aircraft is in the enroute climb configuration. On approach the landing lights are initially pulsed and then STEADY approaching the FAF inbound or at the PIC's discretion. The landing lights may be turned off for landing depending upon the visibility at the runway. There are times when landing in foggy conditions at night that they do more harm than good. That option, of course, is up to the PIC.

Jetguy
 
UTA_flyinghigh
Posts: 6304
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:46 pm

RE: When To Land With The Lights?

Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:38 am

uh, when it's dark Big grin
Will
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
GE
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2000 5:01 pm

RE: When To Land With The Lights?

Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:22 pm

Thanks Cx Flyboy.

Rgds
Russell
 
william
Posts: 1594
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

RE: When To Land With The Lights?

Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:10 am

On the flights I am on,I have noticed usually when entering TRACON airspace the landing lights come on. Then again on a short flight say....from IAH-AUS in high clouds the pilot may leave them on(yes,I have seen this) for the whole duration of the flight.

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