MCPilot
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:58 am

Question For Heavy Aircraft Pilots

Mon Dec 08, 2003 9:04 pm

I Would Like to Know if you haven't had any problem making the 180 turn to Line-up on runway 35 in Las Americas International Airport (MDSD) at Night.

I am asking Because i would like to Know if the portable taxi way lights (Blue) Placed about 65 to 70 meters from the center of the runway 35 and Between E-7 and E-8 are safe enough for a heavy aircraft to make the 180 in order to line-up on runway 35.

Please this a very important information that i Would appreciate.
 
Guest

RE: Question For Heavy Aircraft Pilots

Wed Dec 10, 2003 3:33 am

I remember having done 180 degrees turns at the end of 17 and/or 35...
This with a 747-200... was no problem that I remember...
To do a 180 degrees turn, 153 feet-wide runway is required...
That is of course somewhat tight...
xxx
Note to all my friends on Tech.Ops -
I will be doing a charter to NRT next few days...
Then upon return, starting summer vacations, beach in Brasil...
You will not see much of me next 2 months...
xxx
Merry Xmas to all of you, and Happy New Year...
Happy contrails -
(s) Skipper
 
USAFHummer
Posts: 10261
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 12:22 pm

RE: Question For Heavy Aircraft Pilots

Wed Dec 10, 2003 5:29 am

Have a safe trip Skip, and enjoy your vacation!

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
Mr Spaceman
Posts: 2723
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 5:09 am

RE: Question For Heavy Aircraft Pilots

Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:10 am

Hi guys.

Intersting question MCPILOT. I tried finding some photos of MDSD but couldn't.  Sad

"to do a 180 degrees turn, 153 feet-wide runway is required"

Wow! Those 747's sure are huge!!!

Merry Xmas & a Happy New Year to you too Skipper. Enjoy the beach & the pleasant views. Big grin You'll be missed while your gone.


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PJS800
Posts: 238
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 10:47 am

RE: Question For Heavy Aircraft Pilots

Wed Dec 10, 2003 7:44 am

Merry Christmas Skipper, enjor your vacation. You and all your knowledge will be missed.

PJ

[Edited 2003-12-09 23:45:22]
 
AJ
Posts: 2295
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:54 pm

RE: Question For Heavy Aircraft Pilots

Wed Dec 10, 2003 8:18 am

Hi Guys,

Turn radius for a Boeing 747-400 is exactly as Skipper has stated, 46.6m/153', referring to the width of pavement required. The centre of the turn is just outside the inboard engine pylon and the outboard wingtip will prescibe a 45.1m/148.2' arc.

For the Boeing 767-200 the minimum required pavement width is 39.3m/129' with the turn centred mid chord in front of the high speed aileron. The wingtip will prescribe a 35.9m/117' arc.

The figures for the Boeing 767-300 are 44.6m/146' of pavement and a 37.6m/123' arc.

Minimum radius turns do apply a reasonable amount of stress on the gear, so they are treated with caution.

A main gear leg on a Qantas Boeing 747-338 was fractured conducting a 180 at Rome, using the Boeing turn procedure!

I understand that the large footprint A330/340 aircraft are very prone to undercarriage damage during tight turns. It's also very important when turning in the vicinity of obstacles to realise which part of the aircraft is prescribing the largest arc, as an Asiana Boeing 747-400 found out when it conducted a tight turn on the ramp at Anchorage and impaled an Aeroflot Il-62 on it's wingtip. On a Metroliner it is possible for the wingtip to clear the obstacle but the tail to strike it (seen it happen!).

MCPILOT, the distance you describe at the RW35 threshold sounds ample for a line up procedure.

Cheers.
 
jetstar
Posts: 1374
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Question For Heavy Aircraft Pilots

Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:01 pm

Hey Skipper,

2 months vacation lounging on a beach, I'm envious, but enjoy yourself, you paid your dues.

 
flightsimfreak
Posts: 698
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2000 9:36 am

RE: Question For Heavy Aircraft Pilots

Thu Dec 11, 2003 2:07 pm

A Cessna 172 can clear something with the wingtip but hit it with the tail too... although I don't remember if the wing went over the ladder or if it was past the tip.


I think that I read somewhere (AOPA Pilot quiz) that the turning radius listed in the POH is for the wing, and that in a few planes the tail makes a larger radius circle.
 
GE
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2000 5:01 pm

RE: Question For Heavy Aircraft Pilots

Thu Dec 11, 2003 11:52 pm

When doing a 180 turn is it better to use differential thrust as well? Thanks.  Smile

Regards,
Russell
 
AJ
Posts: 2295
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:54 pm

RE: Question For Heavy Aircraft Pilots

Fri Dec 12, 2003 9:29 am

Russell,

Differential thrust in tight turns can put side loadings on the gear and scrub the nose tires so is avoided if possible.

Mr Boeing describes a minimum radius turn in the 767 manual, starting by saying 'towing the aeroplane to the desired location may be the safest option'! It states to stop the aicraft, apply full tiller into the turn and add thrust on the outboard engine. Brake on the inboard gear can reduce the radius of turn. This type of turn is NASTY and should only be used when all other options are exhausted. If the airline was operating into an airport where this was required it's time to pay for some more pavement!

On a typical backtrack to line up type turn some differential thrust can be used to keep the aircraft moving, as stopping during the turn is not good for aircraft or ego!
 
jjbiv
Posts: 1203
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 10:58 am

RE: Question For Heavy Aircraft Pilots

Fri Dec 12, 2003 9:38 am

If making a minimum radius turn on pavement which is barely wide enough, how can you be assured that your outboard bogey is right on the edge of the pavement before beginning the turn in order to assure that you will clear the turn on the other side of the pavement?

joe
 
AJ
Posts: 2295
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:54 pm

RE: Question For Heavy Aircraft Pilots

Fri Dec 12, 2003 9:43 am

Joe, most pilots have a visual cue for where the gear is, for me when the runway edge is aligned with the window handle the gear is close enough to the edge.

If it is very critical on a ramp ground crew would be used.
 
CanadianNorth
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:41 am

RE: Question For Heavy Aircraft Pilots

Fri Dec 12, 2003 11:15 am

I seen them B737-200C/Adv pull off a few tight 180s...


CanadianNorth
Way to go, nice and slow, never late, 748!
 
GE
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2000 5:01 pm

RE: Question For Heavy Aircraft Pilots

Fri Dec 12, 2003 11:47 am

Thanks for the help AJ  Smile

Russell
 
411A
Posts: 1788
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2001 10:34 am

RE: Question For Heavy Aircraft Pilots

Fri Dec 12, 2003 2:25 pm

OTOH, differential thrust is advised for tight turns with the B707 and Lockheed L1011....other types may vary.
 
MCPilot
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:58 am

RE: Question For Heavy Aircraft Pilots

Fri Dec 12, 2003 8:29 pm

Thanks for the help guys!!!!!

Special Thanks and Respect to B747 Skipper, Mr Spaceman, and AJ

Merry Christmas to all of you,

MCPILOT

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