Mr Spaceman
Topic Author
Posts: 2723
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 5:09 am

ATC Simulator Training?

Fri Dec 12, 2003 9:15 am

Hi guys.

OK, we all know that pilots of all breeds need to do simulator training. It's better to crash & burn while training in a SIM than the obvious option.

But, what about Air Traffic Controllers?

I'm very curious about the training that ATC controllers need to go through before & after they're in a facility or tower. It must be different all over this planet of ours.

For example ....... Do arrival controllers have to practice how to handle a simulated situation such as where they have 3 Boeing 737's wanting to land on the same runway, but, there's a Cessna 172 Skyhawk that's causing them to slow down so much that all the jets have to pass through the the final approach path and circle in order to keep proper spacing?

Do Control Tower controllers need to practice how to handle situations such as ...... An A310 is on very short final and a 747 who has been instructed to hold short of the runway continues past the hold short line and out onto the active?

There's a ton of scenerios that we can go through. I'm just curious about the the world of our dear friends ..... the ATC controllers.  Big thumbs up


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Chris  Smile
"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
 
NORDO
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 3:12 am

RE: ATC Simulator Training?

Fri Dec 12, 2003 9:59 am

Chris,

All the scenarios you listed are covered in our training.
We have our version of a "ground school", then one to three years of OJT before we are certified. It depends on what facility you are assigned to.
Finally, we have "simulators" to hone our skills.

NORDO
 
Mr Spaceman
Topic Author
Posts: 2723
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 5:09 am

RE: ATC Simulator Training?

Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:17 am

Hello NORDO.

I knew you were out there somewhere.  Smile

Thanks for letting me/us know that you ATC folks use simulators also. I suspected so, it only made sense that you would.

Would you mind sharing some of the training that you have done in the SIM with us?

My imagination is showing me a controller (you) infront of a radar screen with a fellew controller behind you, throwing all kinds of surprises your way.

I have to go now. I'll talf to you guys tommorow.

Thanks guys  Smile


Chris  Smile
"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
 
flightsimfreak
Posts: 698
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2000 9:36 am

RE: ATC Simulator Training?

Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:24 am

UND has a 360 tower sim... Just toured it today. They have 8 projectors making a full 360 degree view on which they can show pretty much anything


They also have a Center sim and a Tracon sim...


I'm going to switch to a double major in ATC and Commercial Aviation
 
ZID
Posts: 292
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 4:33 am

RE: ATC Simulator Training?

Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:51 am

It's interesting that I came across this thread today since I just did my yearly refresher training today. Once a year we have to go back to the DYSIM (Don't ask me what the D and Y stand for - it's set up just like a regular sector with other controllers at a separate scope playing the role of the pilots), and we train for those things that we don't ordinarily see, such as different types of emergencies with different types of aircraft, hijacks, lost aircraft, VFR aircraft with non-IFR trained pilots encountering IFR conditions, and so on. We also refresh ourselves on the many varied aspects of each of the airports (unique approach and departure procedures, etc...) in our area of specialization.
I'm not joking! This is my job!
 
N1641
Posts: 201
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 2:10 pm

RE: ATC Simulator Training?

Fri Dec 12, 2003 12:42 pm

in tech school one of the scenarios had a truck roll across the runways without permission, none of the students noticed and it would always get hit by the plane. that was pretty much all we had, the instructors would yell out min. fuel or emergency fuel on occasion but I dont think we had much else, our tower just got a sim and you can program in anything you want but most of the scenarios pretty much just work on spacing and sequencing.
 
PER744
Posts: 397
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 11:38 am

RE: ATC Simulator Training?

Fri Dec 12, 2003 2:52 pm

Airservices Australia have 11 months training followed by 6-8 months on-the-job training.

In the day of testing before the interview stage most of the afternoon is spent on a basic simulation on a PC. This usually involves airspace with a couple of airports (which requires landings to go in a certain direction), 4 exit points from the airspace, 4 flight levels and 3 aircraft speeds. It's quite a challenge when you have about 12 planes in a small screen that you're trying to manage. Thankfully I passed that section very easily.

Can't say what the actual training involves yet as I missed out at the interview stage last year, but I'm halfway through the selection process again so hopefully as of July I'll be able to let you know what it's like.
 
PPGMD
Posts: 2398
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2001 5:39 am

RE: ATC Simulator Training?

Sat Dec 13, 2003 3:51 am

ATCers have seems including some very advanced ones.

The TRACON one that I toured was pretty simple, it had all the positions and the students sit there and sim with someone on a computer in the other room.

The tower sim I toured was only 180 degrees, but it had all the position, and tools, and it had voice recognition (which worked about 90% accurately).

Don't have any pictures, those are on another computer.
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
NORDO
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 3:12 am

RE: ATC Simulator Training?

Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:01 am

ZID

I believe DYSIM is DYnamic SIMulation.


NORDO (ZBW-MY)
 
Mr Spaceman
Topic Author
Posts: 2723
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 5:09 am

RE: ATC Simulator Training?

Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:23 am

Hello Gentlemen.  Smile

Thank You, very much for your replies & excellent information.

To be in a 360 degrees ATC Tower simulator as described by our friend FlightSimFreak must be amazing! That's something I'd love to see.

All the different training techniques & scenarios that you guys mentioned are great to learn about.

I listen to Toronto's ATC every day. It makes me feel really good inside when I hear professionals (pilots & controllers) working together & helping each other out. To me, it really is a sweet dance. I "LOVE" radio work. I'm very good at it. I've never pissed off a controller ....yet. Big grin

I hope that when you guys are training in the SIM that you also get a chance to have some fun. As in arranging some funny traffic conflicts, etc. (is that possible?)

This isn't a topic that's talked about that often. I LOVE learning about the inner workings of an airliner, but, it's also very nice to hear about the world of the people on the other end of the radio. Pure Respect!


Chris  Smile
"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
 
brubiac
Posts: 215
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 4:24 am

RE: ATC Simulator Training?

Sat Dec 13, 2003 10:03 pm

Here at BRU there have a simulator to train on. Would be nice to see how this works.
BRU a small airport in a big world.
 
PPGMD
Posts: 2398
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2001 5:39 am

RE: ATC Simulator Training?

Sun Dec 14, 2003 7:04 am

My friend finished the ATC program he said that when he was the pilot end of it he had alot of fun. Simulating the "Riddle pilot" as he liked to call it. When told to turn to say 350, he would do it the long way around And overall make the other students job a pain.

But he said that the entire time that he was at the position he was being graded so he had to manage the traffic quickly and accurately.

If you want a tour of the 180 degree tower, and the TRACON lab, Riddle opens it up several times a year (along with all of their other labs).
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
N1641
Posts: 201
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 2:10 pm

RE: ATC Simulator Training?

Sun Dec 14, 2003 10:02 am

here's the best pic Ive got of our sim so far.
http://www.redcatmedia.com/pete/pic/Picture433s.jpg

here's a picture of my 10 year old brother trying it out!
http://www.redcatmedia.com/pete/pic/Picture243s.jpg
 
flightsimfreak
Posts: 698
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2000 9:36 am

RE: ATC Simulator Training?

Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:39 pm

Here's the link to UNDs tower sim... The people you see sitting at computer screens are the pseudo-pilots

You can walk through a tube overlooking the sim while it's in operation, and hear the ATC live on a speaker overhead.


http://www.aero.und.edu/atc/photo.htm

FYI, the person standing in the back in the first photo (older guy, grey shirt) is Gary Bartelson, the director of the ATC program here.
 
N1641
Posts: 201
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 2:10 pm

RE: ATC Simulator Training?

Sun Dec 14, 2003 1:48 pm

well thats pretty cool, a 360 sim would be nice, you can scroll around with ours but its a pain if you have traffic
 
Mr Spaceman
Topic Author
Posts: 2723
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 5:09 am

RE: ATC Simulator Training?

Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:38 am

Hi guys.

> N1641 & FlightSimFreak, Thank You guys for the great photos.  Big thumbs up

Here's you pix N1641.

http://www.redcatmedia.com/pete/pic/Picture433s.jpg
http://www.redcatmedia.com/pete/pic/Picture243s.jpg

Thanks,


Chris  Smile
"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"

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