aaway
Topic Author
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Question Re: LAX Arrival Star

Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:35 am

I live in close proximity to LAX, and can observe aircraft as they approach from the north. Typically, the routing is Fillmore, Santa Monica, then vectors to (usually) the 24 complex, sometimes the 25s. However, there have been occasions whereby upon reaching SMO, the aircraft flies about a 100 heading. This routing takes the aircraft over the 24/25 approaches at 7000' descending and has said planes doing a south downwind to LAX.
What condition(s) dictate this?
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
timz
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RE: Question Re: LAX Arrival Star

Fri Dec 19, 2003 7:14 am

Stab in the dark: is the usual 70-heading-off-SMO only used for visual approaches?
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Question Re: LAX Arrival Star

Fri Dec 19, 2003 9:35 am

If there is a lot of traffic around, we will normally be asked to fly heading 070 from Santa Monica VOR just so we join a longer final. It is still under radar vectors, just to accomodate more traffic. We have to be wary of getting too low on descent when on this heading as we are flying towards the hills, and we have had a few cases of the GPWS being set off because of the descent towards the hills whilst on this radar vector.
 
aaway
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RE: Question Re: LAX Arrival Star

Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:34 am

No, it's not the 070 heading. 070 is practically a straight shot from SMO to downtown LA. The pattern I'm curious about is in the 100 - 120 heading range from SMO toward SLI. Once about 8-10 miles SE of SMO, aircraft are turned to 070. Another way of explanation: rather than parallelling the 24s on the approach, these aircraft parallel the 25s, then perform a left base for final. 070 from SMO is used with both IMC and VMC.

[Edited 2003-12-19 02:38:44]
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Question Re: LAX Arrival Star

Sat Dec 20, 2003 1:52 am

Let me guess, these are aircraft who are landing on the 25s... likely to either balance the arrival load on the pairs or because they are for the south terminals like UAL. Likely they are going over the arrival ends at 7000 like you say and then entering a downwind for 25. It ends up being a teardrop approach. I may pull up Flight Explorer and watch for something like that.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
aaway
Topic Author
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RE: Question Re: LAX Arrival Star

Sat Dec 20, 2003 2:06 am

Let me guess, these are aircraft who are landing on the 25s... likely to either balance the arrival load on the pairs or because they are for the south terminals like UAL. Likely they are going over the arrival ends at 7000 like you say and then entering a downwind for 25. It ends up being a teardrop approach.
InnocuousFox,
BINGO. I suspect it's both, as I've seen aircraft vectored for that approach when the approaches were busy, and not so busy. Typically UA and Skywest (UAX) get this vector, but I've also seen some of the int'l guys that park at TBIT north gates, or remote gates, fly this approach.
Thought someone might have specific info.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Question Re: LAX Arrival Star

Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:43 am

The advantage of running a parallel downwind is that you can turn an a/c in on a 180 to fill a gap. They keep going away from the field until there is a gap and then start their turn (usually when they are abreast of the inbound a/c). The a/c departing SMO on heading 070 are for the north side of the field. The ones overflying the field will probably then fly a 070 heading once they get SOUTH of the south approach flow... they do the same thing as the first group, but they just make a left turn to join the pattern.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
aaway
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RE: Question Re: LAX Arrival Star

Sat Dec 20, 2003 7:39 am

IF,
Appreciate your response. I'm aware reasoning, it's just that SOCAL issues these vectors on an infrequent basis. At DFW, parallel downwinds are SOP.
Your original response is probably the answer...a procedure utilized at the discretion of SOCAL traffic-dictating, or traffic-permitting.
See ya' back on the civil-side!
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
AAR90
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RE: Question Re: LAX Arrival Star

Sat Dec 20, 2003 3:39 pm

Normally assigned only during periods of relatively light traffic and only to commuters. Simply to "cut the corner" on an approach and almost always to get them to the south complex quickly. Close & quick coordination by LAX Tower & SoCal Tracon required.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
aaway
Topic Author
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RE: Question Re: LAX Arrival Star

Sat Dec 20, 2003 4:11 pm

AAR90,
Thank you. I have noticed mostly EMBs and SAABs. However, have seen practically everything else. Yesterday a CO 777, today Atlas 74-400. I believe you and IF have it...procedure dictated by traffic.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard

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