Jkw777
Topic Author
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DC-10-30 Engine Question.

Wed Feb 25, 2004 5:46 am

Hi there folks,

This may be classed as a cheap hits post, but really I am just very curious to know something about the DC-10-30 3rd engine.


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Photo © Justin Wood



One this shot, taken by moi  Big grin, I notice that on the 3rd engine there seems to be a chain of circular objects on the silver/chrome part of the engine. Any ideas on why that would be there or what it actually is?!

I have never noticed it before you see, hence why I ask!

Many thanks for any feedback given,

Regards,

Justin  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

PS: Hope y'all like my shot! I am a newbie photographer so I'm always pleased to hear what you think, Thank you.  Smile
jkw6210@btopenworld.com or +447751242989
 
dc10hound
Posts: 460
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 4:18 pm

RE: DC-10-30 Engine Question.

Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:01 am

By your description, I guess "third engine" is the tail engine - #2.

The circular objects are removable inspection plates for the #2 engine inlet nose cowl. The internal space in this area contains anti-ice ducting.

That area is not really part of the engine, it is aircraft structure. The actual front of the engine is about 10-15 feet aft, almost directly under the rudder.
"Eagles soar. But weasels never get sucked into jet intakes.."
 
jutes85
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RE: DC-10-30 Engine Question.

Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:41 am

The actual front of the engine is about 10-15 feet aft, almost directly under the rudder.


What is the real point of this? Why do they need to add the extra metal to cover the front area?
nothing
 
grandtheftaero
Posts: 247
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RE: DC-10-30 Engine Question.

Wed Feb 25, 2004 3:44 pm

What is the real point of this? Why do they need to add the extra metal to cover the front area?"

The "extra metal" is called a crown. It is warmed by engine bleed air and prevents ice formation. All three nacelles have this feature.

The reason that the engine is placed in the aft portion of the duct is that the hot exhaust gases would have melted the aluminum airframe if the engine was placed in the front of the duct. Also the pressure of the exhaust gas may have blown apart the duct entirely. For a forward-mounted engine to work, a duct that could withstand the temperature and pressure of the exhaust would have to be placed between the turbine rear frame and exhaust body of the engine. Additionally the exhaust end of the duct would have to properly shaped to expand the exhaust flow to optimal conditions. This is essentially an afterburner duct without the fuel nozzles, flameholders, and variable nozzle.

Given all this, it seems that Douglas made the right decision in placing the #2 engine in the aft portion of the duct. However, the penalty for the long inlet duct is that a significantly thick boundary layer is ingested by the engine, thereby deteriorating performance. Apparently the loss in performance was not substantial enough to deter Douglas, Lockheed and others to use duct-fed engines on their trijet airplanes.

--Shane
 
FDXmech
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Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: DC-10-30 Engine Question.

Wed Feb 25, 2004 10:55 pm

>>>What is the real point of this? Why do they need to add the extra metal to cover the front area?<<<

The extra metal in the shape of an intake duct is structure supporting the vertical stabilizer/rudder.

The #2 engine is mounted to the pylon structure directly above it.

Also hypothetically, how would you drop (replace) the engine if it were directly on top of the fuselage?
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
avioniker
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RE: DC-10-30 Engine Question.

Thu Feb 26, 2004 1:19 am

Nice picture. By the way NW flies -40's, sorry.
The principle difference is that the -30 has GE CF-6-50's and the -40 has Pratts.
There's others but I just couldn't resist...sorry
One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
 
747Teach
Posts: 176
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RE: DC-10-30 Engine Question.

Thu Feb 26, 2004 2:08 am

Avioniker: "By the way, NW flies -40's, sorry." The Fleet Summary as of Jan. 01, 2004 lists 22 DC-10-30 aircraft in operation with the NWA fleet. There are no DC-10-40 aircraft listed in the operational fleet. There are two -40 aircraft, 1143 and 1144 listed in storage. Regards,
 
avioniker
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RE: DC-10-30 Engine Question.

Fri Feb 27, 2004 5:25 am

I'll be darned!
That is a Pratt powered bird in the picture, however...
One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
Posts: 3960
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RE: DC-10-30 Engine Question.

Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:11 am

Sorry Avionker.. wrong again. Notice the straight #2 nacelle..those are GE engines, which is the quickest ID for it being a -30 series. I cant remember the exact ship numbers, but this is probably a -30EER. 580,000 mgtow...
Chicks dig winglets.
 
VC-10
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RE: DC-10-30 Engine Question.

Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:38 am


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Photo © Paul Robinson
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Robinson



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Robinson
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Robinson



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Robinson

 
N243NW
Posts: 1597
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RE: DC-10-30 Engine Question.

Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:41 am

XFSUgimp is correct. Here is N229NW listed in the FAA's archives:

N229NW is Assigned
Assigned/Registered Aircraft
Aircraft Description


Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera...Oh, here it is:

Airworthiness
Engine Manufacturer...GE
Engine Model....CF6-50 SER


There you are. Yes, indeed, the Pratts can easily be identified by the bulge on the #2 nacelle's intake.

-N243NW Big grin
B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.
 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: DC-10-30 Engine Question.

Fri Feb 27, 2004 7:23 am

VC10

Great photo's.

We had a #2 change a couple months back. The old fashioned way, four manual chain hoists. To make matters worse, the chain hoist/engine cradle combo left us several inches short of mating. We had to drop it down again, switch equipment and manually hoist it back up again. OOH the pain!
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: DC-10-30 Engine Question.

Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:28 am

As far as I know, all planes with engines in rear ducts have the engine in the way back. Apart from the thermal issues, it is much more important to control the air going into the engine than the air going out. Although Boeing probably wished it had done something completely different at some points during the 727 test program. Those #2's kept flaming out on rotation.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo

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