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Vio
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Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:12 pm

Hi,

A rather stupid question. My buddy was flying WestJet today, from YYC to YYZ. He bought a much loved and cheap AGD (Alberta Genuine Draft Beer). He wanted to take it him, but we didn't know if he should check it in, or put it on his carry on.

So... 1st. question. Would you want to put a beer can in an unpressuried compartment?

2nd... are all baggage compartments pressurised? or not?


... i feel ashamed asking this question....  Big thumbs up
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757KSLC
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:22 pm

I don't think they are... I know my shampoo bottle always seems to explode and leak everywhere, as do a few other bottles occasionally. I don't know why they would do this if it was pressurized. On the other hand, when animals travel they go down in the baggage compartment, and I don't think they could survive in an unpreserved environment at FL380 or something.

Good Question. Don't feel ashamed, I don't know the answer either. Or... Maybe we should both be ashamed together?
 
jwenting
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:25 pm

At least part of the hold is pressurised as they carry life animals in the hold regularly.
Unless life animals are on board though, it is NOT heated which means that you will have to be careful with any fizzy drinks you check as there might be unpleasant surprised on opening the can/bottle unless you let them get to temperature slowly.

As to leaking bottles, I've never experienced that...
I wish I were flying
 
bohica
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurized?`

Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:25 pm

Most airliners have pressurized baggage compartments. Some turboprops may have a pressurized compartment and an unpressurized one. (Jetstreams come to mind) As long as you're on a jet, you should be fine.

My biggest concern would be the beer can bursting due to rough baggage handling.  Big thumbs up
 
freshlove1
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:27 pm

yes they are pressurized, if they were not then the cargo doors would not blow out in mid-flight causing the floor to collapse like some have in the past, it has the same pressure as in the main cabin. As to your shampoo bottles leaking thats because they abuse your luggage while they are trying to stuff it in the bin.
 
andz
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:30 pm

National Geographic had a program on last night about that UA flight from Honolulu where the hold door locks failed causing it to blow out and take a big part of the side of the plane and 9 passengers with it. So I guess the answer is yes.
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QIguy24
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:31 pm

I often bring Swiss beer to Denmark from Switzerland in my suitcase. And I have never had any problem with leaking bootles or cans.
 
757KSLC
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:32 pm

Those dirty rotten baggage handlers! lol I always thought it was pressure changes!
 
koopas
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:34 pm

Yes, cargo holds are pressurized. Temperature is certainly different than in the cabin.
 
airliner777
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:03 pm

Regarding those bottles you guys are worried about, I'll tell you that the problem is the following:

The pressure inside of the shampoo bottle (or any other bottle) goes through a stage of change while the aircraft climbs. This is due to the fact that the cargo compartment is pressurized same as the cabin compartment. Most aircraft cabins are pressurized to a range between 6,000ft MSL to 8,000ft MSL. The pressure inside of the bottle is equal to the pressure altitude when you closed it. As the aircraft climbs, the cabin pressure starts decreasing, then the pressure inside of the bottle tends to equalize it's outside pressure. This is why it expands, and most of the times spills everything all over inside your bag.

Also, I can say that the Ramp Agents sometimes are a "little" abrupt with those bags too.  Big grin
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:12 pm

The shampoo problem is very easy to fix. Just squeeze out most of the air, then close the bottle before packing it. It should then have a "crumpled" appearance. The smaller amount of air inside will expand at the lower pressure in the hold (or in the cabin) but not enough to pop the cork. I always take this precaution with lotion and so forth. As an extra layer of safety, tape the cork closed. Since I started to do this, I have never had a problem with goo all over.

Of course, if your shampoo bottle is full, you have a problem.

As for pressurization, the hold IS! Think about the shape of the airplane. It's easier to make the hull airtight (it's round and already strong) that to make the flat floor a pressure bulkhead.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Mr.BA
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:22 pm

Hi Airliner777,

I'm not at high school physics yet so forgive me...  Smile. Since the pressure inside the bottle is equal to the pressure altitude when one closes it, why would the pressure decrease as you climb? And why when the pressure lowers the liquid would expand?

Thanks!
Boeing747 万岁!
 
liamksa
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:42 pm

The pressure inside of the shampoo bottle (or any other bottle) goes through a stage of change while the aircraft climbs.

Gday Mr. BA, it might be this sentence which is confusing you, because the pressure change isn't in the bottle, it's in the compartment. Basically, sea level pressure (if departing a sea level aerodrome) is trapped in the bottle. As the aircraft climbs, the pressure outside the bottle (in the compartment) falls and you have the 'blown up balloon' case. So the pressure differential is trying to force the shampoo out of the bottle (high pressure always wants to get to low pressure eg: air escaping from your tyres, letting go of the balloon etc..)
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Wed Mar 03, 2004 11:44 pm

the liquid does not expand so much as the air in the bottle.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Mr.BA
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:21 am

Hi Liamska,

Thanks a lot. That sentence did lead me the wrong way.  Smile

Cheers!

alvin
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avioniker
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:44 am

Let's not forget what happens when liquids freeze. Most aft bag pits aren't heated so your beer will expand exponentially. That plus the difference in your boarding altitude and the 7000 to 8000 foot cabin altitude at cruise equals beerpop.
One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
 
Guest

RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurized?`

Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:10 am

Most airline baggage compartments are both heated and pressurized. It's been a while, but I don't believe that the temperature is kept more than a few degrees above freezing.

I'm going way back here now, so you 727 types will have to excuse me if my memory is off, but the B727 had a switch in the engineer's panel that controlled the pressurization into the baggage holds. In the event of the loss of pressurization or the failure of one packs the engineer would divert the pressurized air from the baggage compartment to the aircraft cabin. We called the switch the "Puppy Snuffer". Kind of crude, but an effective description of what happened to the animals in the baggage compartment when you flipped the switch.

In case any of you care, in the case of bizjets, some compartments are heated, some aren't. Some are pressurized, others aren't. It depends upon the airplane and the compartment.

Jetguy
 
goboeing
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:20 am

I've heard of another type of "puppy snuffer" from a Saab 340 pilot who was referring to the fire extinguishers in the cargo compartment.

Nick
 
cancidas
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:38 am

if the airplane is presurized, the cargo bins usually are. on the B1900s the bins aren't presurized. most others i know of are.
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Thu Mar 04, 2004 4:56 am

Your beer will be fine. Logically, it should take less energy to heat the whole pressure fuse than just the cabin, since the hull is a better insulator than the floor, which is full of holes anyway.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
L-188
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Thu Mar 04, 2004 5:16 am

The puppy snuffer on the 727 controlled heat in the forward compartment, not pressuization.

Someobdy forgot to tell the guys flying the one that brought my 8 week old puppy in. She was pretty cold when she got of the airplane. 8 years later, I still have that dog, which I ended up naming "shivers"
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smithfly114
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurized?`

Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:35 am

Yes cargo holds are pressurized, like stated above they carry live animals in them. The fact of the shampoo leaking is because, although the cabin and cargo holds are pressurized they are not equal to the atmospheric pressure from where you departed, therefore there will still be a change in atmospheric pressure and if there is any air in a container it will still most likely expand. This is why I make sure as much air as possible is out of any containers before I fly - to avoid a mess
-C
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Thu Mar 04, 2004 7:01 am

if the airplane is presurized, the cargo bins usually are. on the B1900s the bins aren't presurized. most others i know of are.

At least on the D model, the aft bin has to be. The back wall is not a bulkhead.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
FredT
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Thu Mar 04, 2004 7:41 am

L-188,
was the "puppy snuffer" the one that got the heat from the avionics bay?

Cheers,
Fred
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Goldenshield
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Thu Mar 04, 2004 8:07 am

Using a travel size shampoo bottle should alleviate all those problems. If it's a screw on type, nothing will happen to it. Also, why are you CHECKING your shampoo??

Plus, beer should be fine, as it's not strong enough to be a fire hazard (The alcohol), plus I regularly ship several hundred pounds per week for the caterers.
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L-188
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Thu Mar 04, 2004 8:11 am

I think it was bleed air Fred, I was a ramp rat not a mechanic. The reason I was told our ops kept the puppy snuffer closed for T/O and normal operations was to keep that little bit of power that would otherwise be lost for the engines. So definately sounds like Bleed Air to me.

Booze technally is only hazmat at 100 proof and above, so beer isn't an issue.

I haven't seen a 1900C or Metro that hasn't had a pressurized aft cargo bay, as JBirdAV8R said, the pressure bulkhead is aft.

That being said, the nose lockers on the Metro are ahead of the forward bulkhead so they aren't pressurized.

[Edited 2004-03-04 00:13:18]
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HAWK21M
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:45 pm

Yes the Baggage compartments are Pressurized.
On the B737s.The Fwd Cargo Compartment is used for Live Cargo as the heat extracted from the Electronics modules by passing airflow upstream making it warmer than the Aft Cargo Compartment.
Although both are pressurizied.
regds
HAWK
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Starlionblue
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:49 pm

Goldenshield said:
Using a travel size shampoo bottle should alleviate all those problems. If it's a screw on type, nothing will happen to it. Also, why are you CHECKING your shampoo??


I don't have enough hair to use shampoo, but I always check my toiletries. This belongs in another thread of course, but why the heck would I need it on board?


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
trent900
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurized?`

Fri Mar 05, 2004 7:23 am

The complete fuselage is pressurized all the way from the front pressure bulkhead (which is situated just behind the radome) to the rear pressure bulkhead (which is behind the real galley/toilets). Anyone opening a door or hatch which is outward opening after a plane has landed have to be extremely careful and make sure the aircraft has been de-pressurized. If not that door will blow open when unlatched.

Trent.
 
7574EVER
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Fri Mar 05, 2004 7:41 am

"Anyone opening a door or hatch which is outward opening after a plane has landed have to be extremely careful and make sure the aircraft has been de-pressurized." - Trent900

I can assure you that is has been. I believe that after the Saudia TriStar fire, all aircraft are required to have a squat switch on the main gear that is linked to the pressure outflow valve. In the event that the pilots forgot to reset the cabin pressure to field elevation, as soon as the plane touches down the outflow valve fully opens releasing any pressure.

The fire and a brief explanation is discussed in this link. (starting about halfway down the page)

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/tech_ops/read.main/81679/
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Goldenshield
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Fri Mar 05, 2004 7:37 pm

Starlionblue said:
I don't have enough hair to use shampoo, but I always check my toiletries. This belongs in another thread of course, but why the heck would I need it on board?


It's not that you need it on board - It's more for if your baggage doesn't arrive with you. Sure, you could go buy more, but why shell out more? Also, being that I non-rev a lot, it is possible that my bags get there before I do (possibly LONG before I do), and it is wise to be able to clean up somewhere that has a shower.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
Guest

RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Fri Mar 05, 2004 8:08 pm

Pssst, 7574EVER -
xxx
Squat switch to open outflow valve?
Some planes do, some planes do not...
The 707 and 727 are pressurized .125 lbs/sq.in on ground.
Flight manual limitation...
xxx
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Starlionblue
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Fri Mar 05, 2004 8:09 pm

I can see the non-rev thing. It's just that for the rest of us, the chance of luggage not arriving is pretty small. Small enough to warrant the risk.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
trent900
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurized?`

Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:59 am

The squat switch is not used to open the outflow valve fully on some aircraft, only to allow the pilot to select reverse thrust.

Most outward opening cargo doors contain an inward opening hatch which opens before the main latches undo to allow any excess pressure to escape from the hold.

I'm sure I've heard of an accident which concerned a stewardess opening the cabin door only to find a blast of air behind her which blew her out (she did not check the cabin altitude before opening). Anyone got anymore info on this?

Trent.
 
FredT
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RE: Is The Baggage Compartment Pressurised?`

Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:12 am

Has happened quite a few times. Sometimes with fatal results. Rampers getting struck and F/As getting pulled out when opening doors. Sometimes with fatal results, mainly from the drop when falling out. BTW, the blast of air typically isn't the culprit, getting hit by the door or pulled out by holding the handle is.And then the infamous armed escape slides...

BTW, that the squat switched is only used to allow the pilot to select reverse truth... I'd like to see a modern design where this holds true. The air-ground logic tends to be complex!  Big grin

Cheers,
Fred
I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.

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