JC5280
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Aircraft Water

Sun Mar 28, 2004 7:43 pm

Does any one know how much potable water goes on an aircraft? I am curious about planes like the A320, 777, etc. Thanks!
 
Businessboy
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RE: Aircraft Water

Sun Mar 28, 2004 7:44 pm

I was just wondering about that myself!

Anybody who knows???

 Smile

[Edited 2004-03-28 11:44:36]
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longhauler
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RE: Aircraft Water

Mon Mar 29, 2004 1:01 am

Air Canada's A319s, A320s and A321s hold 200L. It appears to be enough for our longest flights, (about 6 hours).
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
Refueler1974
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RE: Aircraft Water

Mon Mar 29, 2004 6:04 am

I don't know about all aircraft, but L1011s and MD11s hold about 100 USG and B742s hold about 150-200 USG.
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.
 
JC5280
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RE: Aircraft Water

Mon Mar 29, 2004 7:37 pm

Help me out with the conversion. How many USG is 200L? Also, is all of this water put in one tank? Or several?
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Aircraft Water

Mon Mar 29, 2004 7:55 pm

On a B737, the potable water tank is in the aft cargo pit behind the last wall under the aft galley just right in front of the pressurized bulkhead. The tank itself is made out of composite materials and fiberglass. The tank is about 4 feet long and 2 feet tall, but I dont remember how much water the tank itself can hold. The 737s only have one potable water tank. In a c-check, the tank was very very hard to take out and put back in.
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Alessandro
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RE: Aircraft Water

Mon Mar 29, 2004 8:04 pm

Would it be possible to take water from humid air that goes into the aircondition? Or is it too complicated,expensive and heavy?
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SailorOrion
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RE: Aircraft Water

Mon Mar 29, 2004 8:19 pm

For rough computations, one USG is around 3,7liters.

A380-800:

normal: 1,7m³
optional: 2,3m³

(that's 449 and 598 USGAL for those of you who work at Lockheed Martin).

But remember that airlines usually carry bottles of water as well Big grin

SailorOrion
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Aircraft Water

Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:19 pm

For really nitpicking converters, try: http://www.onlineconversion.com/volume.htm.

One cubic metre is 1000 liters and 1000 kilos (that last one is assuming it's distilled water) or 264.1720512 Gallons (US).
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
747Teach
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RE: Aircraft Water

Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:03 pm

Jc5280: The 747 generally has the capacity of 330 gallons of potable water. This is held in three 110 gallon filament-wound fiberglass tanks attached to the forward side of the center section front spar (rear bulkhead of the forward baggage compartment). The water is moved from the tanks by pressurized air. This pressure is provided by electrically driven air compressors mounted next to the tanks. Not all operators use all three tanks. Depending on the length of the segments they intend to fly, some operators have deleted some of the tanks. 747 AMM, 38-11-00, page 1, pg 2. Regards,
 
Klaus
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RE: Aircraft Water

Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:28 pm

From what I´ve read in earlier threads, the term "potable" water seems to be a minor overstatement... Any ground or air crew members here who would dare to drink it "fresh" from the tap?  Wink/being sarcastic

Just interested...  Innocent
 
musang
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RE: Aircraft Water

Tue Mar 30, 2004 1:02 am

Klaus. I agree. Our company rule is not to uplift any potable water downroute (which means not in the UK). But based on what I've heard is in it, I wouldn't drink it wherever it came from.

Regards - Musang
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Aircraft Water

Tue Mar 30, 2004 1:04 am

On the passenger MD-11 you can have up to four 63 USG tanks, the freighter usally has all removed exept for one. Mind that this water also serves for flushing the vacuum toilets if installed. The tanks sit in the utility tunnels (behind the sidewall) of the forward cargo compartment.
Here the water used for servicing is usually chlorinated potable water, but you´ll never know who services the tank down line. Usually the galleys contain an antibiological filter (AFIAK it contains silver ions) for the taps and coffee makers, which get changed regularely. Also the tanks will be desinfected every few weeks, normaly during an A-check.

Jan
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Dalmd88
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RE: Aircraft Water

Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:30 am

Not all 737 have the tank in the aft. Our -200 have them mounted in the fwd pit on the left wall. As for the quality of the water, I wouldn't drink out of one of those tanks. I do drink the coffee since the water gets boiled first.
 
dairbus
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RE: Aircraft Water

Tue Mar 30, 2004 1:52 pm

Here is some data for Delta's fleet:

MD88/90 47USG (177.9L)
732/733 40USG (151.2L)
738 60USG (226.8L)
757 66USG (249.8L)-Fill valve closes automatically at 50USG (189.3L)
762/763 120USG (453.6L)-Fill valve closes automatically at 102USG (385.5L)
763ER 160USG (600.6L)
764ER 224USG (847.9L)
772ER 300USG (1135.6L)
MD11 250USG (946.4L) Estimated

The MD88/90, 732/733, and MD11 have the potable water tank(s) in the forward fuselage. The other aircraft have the tank(s) in the aft fuselage. The MD11, 764, and 777 have two tanks while the rest of the fleet has only one. As stated in a previous post, the aircraft with vacuum lavatories have a larger water capacity since it is also used to flush the toilets.

It is standard practice to service the potable water as part of the ground servicing but in practice it is only done on RON aircraft and as needed during the day. With international flights, the water is always topped off and it is a high priority item. Most captains will not leave on an international flight unless their potable water is full. I am not 100% sure but I believe this is due to the fact that the local water is unreliable in some parts of the world and they want enough for the return trip if necessary. Also, after fuel, engine oil, and hydraulic fluid, water is the most vital operating fluid on an aircraft and has caused aircraft to divert if it malfunctions.

I hope this information helps. Regards.
"I love mankind. It's people I can't stand." - Charles Shultz
 
atlamt
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RE: Aircraft Water

Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:10 am

I wouldn't drink the water, even the coffee. The coffee makers don't actually boil the water they just heat it up. Remember that at altitude the pressure in the cabin is less than on the ground so water will boil at a lot less than 212F.
Fwd to MCO and Placard
 
srbmod
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RE: Aircraft Water

Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:08 pm

I remember the potable water trucks @ FL @ ATL back when I worked there, they were some beat-up light pickup trucks with an agricultural tank mounted in the truck bed, with a pump and hose mounted where the passenger seat used to be. We filled it from a tap, but no telling how long that truck would sit out in the sun........ Same could be said of any potable water truck.
 
Refueler1974
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RE: Aircraft Water

Sun Apr 04, 2004 9:28 am

I would rather have the potable water truck instead of the setup we have. All we have are 5 gallon Kentwood water bottles and a portable pump that has a long plastic tube on one end (this sticks into the top of the water bottle) and a line that connects to the aircraft. We then connect the pump to the battery of whatever vehicle we are in, and away we go!! Believe me...it takes a while to pump 50 or so gallons of water using this system.....but it is all we have for now! One of these days we might get to graduate up to having a "real" water truck......LOL
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.
 
T prop
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RE: Aircraft Water

Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:24 pm

Any ground or air crew members here who would dare to drink it "fresh" from the tap?

Only at gunpoint. Big grin

T prop.
 
EconoBoy
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RE: Aircraft Water

Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:29 pm

Hmmm... I think the gist of this thread for us pax is to make sure you have plenty of bottled water with you before you board!
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Aircraft Water

Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:43 am

Alessandro: Would it be possible to take water from humid air that goes into the aircondition?

No, that doesn't work.

We all know the water running from the aircon in our car, but in an airliner the situation is quite different.

The aircon in our car cools hot and humid air. The airliner heats dry air. In fact very cold and therefore VERY dry air.

After some time at cruising altitude the relative humidity is often as low as 5% in an airliner cabin and on very long flight that's sort of a problem to some people. Normal livingroom humidity is most comfu around 50% or so. Flying 10 or 15 hours, be sure that you drink enough, or you may suffer slightly from dehydration.

If you go and buy one of the very long range Gulfstream biz jets, then you have the option to invest in a special aircon system which ADDS water to the cabin air for comfort reasons. I don't have the figures available, but it takes a lot of water from a quite substantial tank to raise the cabin air humidity from 5% to just 25-30% during a 15 hours flight. And of course it has to be distilled water.

Happy landing, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Klaus
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T Prop

Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:38 pm

Klaus: Any ground or air crew members here who would dare to drink it "fresh" from the tap?

T prop: Only at gunpoint.

Thought so.  Wink/being sarcastic
 
Alessandro
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RE: Aircraft Water

Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:21 am

Preben, check this out http://www.airdisaster.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17184
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Aircraft Water

Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:33 am

Thanks Allessandro.

But the space crafts or space stations are an entirely different animals. They have to recycle the atmosphere, constantly add oxygen and remove vapor from sweat etc. And somehow the crew gets used to live with the rest which soon becomes a rather smelly stuff.

In an airliner we constantly renew the cabin air with fresh air from outside. And at 30 or 40,000 feet the air happens to be extremely dry.

It would be possible to extract some of the little water which comes with the air. But it would be very costly in energy to do so. It might end up spending more fuel than the water it produced.

To extract water you have to cool the air below the dew point. At cruising altitude the temperature is something like minus 50 deg. C or colder. And the dew point is much lower. You would probably have to cool enormous amounts of air to minus 100 deg. C to extract some of the very little water there is.

So for all practical reasons, it is not possible.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Alessandro
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RE: Aircraft Water

Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:44 pm

Preben, I don´t believe that, too expensive to get new air from the outside all the time, I think the ventilation recycle the air (which was the problem with SARS and other airborne diseases) in a big commercial passengerplane because it´s too expensive to heat (also not so much oxygen in the air at higher altitude).
Perhaps you only got experience with biz-jets which got a different economical
situation than as an example B747?


[Edited 2004-04-07 09:44:45]
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
liamksa
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RE: Aircraft Water

Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:32 pm

I think the ventilation recycle the air (which was the problem with SARS and other airborne diseases) in a big commercial passengerplane because it´s too expensive to heat

Alessandro, given that bleed air for pressurisation / air conditioning comes from the compressor, there is no shortage of hot air (ie: the same air that is ducted to wing and tailplane leading edges to ensure no ice formation). Although it is true some cabin air is recycled a number of times, the reason is not to cut costs by not having to heat the air. Every time you take bleed air from the compressor the engine becomes less efficient which is where the $$ come in.
 
MxCtrlr
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RE: Aircraft Water

Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:21 pm

I think the ventilation recycle the air (which was the problem with SARS and other airborne diseases) in a big commercial passengerplane because it´s too expensive to heat

I agree with Liamksa. The problem is not heating, its bleeding additional air from the engine compressors. The air coming off the air cycle machines is VERY cold (even on the ground on a hot summer Florida day) due to the compression/expansion of that air. Heating of the air is necessary (again, even on the ground on a hot summer Florida day). (If any of you have ever been in a home that used an attic fan for cooling, you understand the basic principles behind an ACM - take large amounts of air, squeeze them down through a small opening and then rapidly expand that air. It becomes quite cool that way and even more so if humid or damp air is used.

Back on the original topic - the "potable" water on board aircraft is NASTY because any filtration system used is usually not cleaned on a regular basis (thus allowing bacteriological build-up) and the tanks themselves are also not cleaned on a regular basis (causing the same problems along with algae and other "fungus amongus" - or should that be "fungi amongi" - problems). If the systems were cleaned with Bio-Bore on a regular basis, it wouldn't be that much of a problem.

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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kaddyuk
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RE: Aircraft Water

Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:22 pm

Nothing but evian on Virgin Atlantic  Smile
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
beechcraft
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RE: Aircraft Water

Sat Apr 24, 2004 4:29 am

Hi,

As for the CRJ 200/700 its

a Galley water tank of 8 USG/30L
a Lavatory water tank of 5 USG/ 19L
and a toilet water tank of 18,5 USG/ 70L

reagrding the drink or not question:
"We have little saying out here: If it´s brown, drink it down, if it´s black, send it back..."  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Denis

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greasespot
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RE: Aircraft Water

Sun Apr 25, 2004 10:09 pm

There is not a chance I would ever drink the water from a tap on any airplane. We had one freeze and burst when someone forgot to drain it and the A/C was parked out side for a week in the winter. Needless to say I have not had coffee or water on the airplane again.......

 Nuts

Greasespot
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buckfifty
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RE: Aircraft Water

Sun Apr 25, 2004 10:21 pm

You can see it in the galleys, the pax get the tap water (which is same as the water from the lav facuets). When the pax leave, then they refill the crew cups straight from the bottles.

Oh, the poor passengers. If only they knew...
 
Thunderbird1
Posts: 223
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RE: Aircraft Water

Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:11 am

Interesting article about this just came out

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=5&u=/ap/20050119/ap_on_he_me/airlines_unsafe_water

I wonder why better filtration or anti-bacterial systems aren't in place.
 
Thunderbird1
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RE: Aircraft Water

Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:31 am

Does anyone know what the main water tanks (serving the galley, etc) are made of? Are they some sort of plastic?
 
air2gxs
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RE: Aircraft Water

Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:40 am

Normally composite materials. I believe its a fiberglass wrapped plastic tank.
 
Tod
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RE: Aircraft Water

Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:52 am

747 generally has the capacity of 330 gallons of potable water. This is held in three 110 gallon filament-wound fiberglass tanks

Some 742 have only two tanks.

744 have either three or four tanks. Many of the long haul carriers have gone to four. Some have a pre-select function at the service panel that facilitates filling partial quantities.

Most 742F and 743F conversions have a single 110 gallon tank with a standpipe mod that limits the quantity to about 35 gallons.

744F have a single small tank (about 35 gallons as I recall) located on the right side, just aft of the fwd belly door, where pax oxy would normally be located.

Drink the stuff? Not me. YUCK!

 
320tech
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RE: Aircraft Water

Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:03 am

The A320 has a 200 L (55 US Gal) water tank. It's located behind the aft wall of the forward cargo, right ahead of the wing. In the A319, it's right beside the waste tank, behind the aft cargo, right under the aft galley.

Air Canada sterilises the water every five or six months, but there's no way I'd ever drink it. AC hands out bottled water to the passengers.

Stick with something in a bottle.
The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the manufacturer and impossible for the AME.
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Aircraft Water

Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:44 am

Today in Airwise: http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1106215373.html

Airline Water Quality Still Poor

January 20, 2005

The US government has found for the second time in recent months that water from a sampling of commercial aircraft galleys and bathrooms was not safe for use, regulators said on Wednesday.

Tests last November and December by the Environmental Protection Agency on a fraction of the thousands of planes in the domestic and international commercial fleet found samples failed to meet US government drinking water standards.

The EPA said the results of the latest testing showed the scope of the problem and reinforced the agency's decision to forge agreements with airlines to more closely monitor water systems and tighten sanitary measures.

The agreements, which include testing protocols, are not fully in place yet. They will govern drinking water safety until new regulations are devised.

The EPA again warned that passengers with compromised immune systems or others who are concerned about water quality "may want to request" canned or bottled beverages and refrain from coffee or tea unless made with bottled water.

The biggest domestic airlines again questioned the government's sampling results and countered that their water is safe.

Tests last summer found that 12 percent of 158 randomly selected aircraft operated by domestic and international carriers tested positive for coliform bacteria, which by itself may not pose a health risk. But coliform bacteria in drinking water indicates that other disease-causing organisms, or pathogens, may be present.

Water on two planes tested last summer contained E. coli, a potentially deadly bacteria commonly associated with food poisoning.

At the time, EPA officials called the results surprising and moved to alert the public, negotiate water testing agreements with major carriers, and launch a second round of sampling.

The latest tests last autumn found that water on 17 percent of 169 randomly selected planes was positive for coliform. E. coli was not found in any samples this time, the EPA said. The airlines were not identified.

[...]


I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Aircraft Water

Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:15 am

B732 is approx 40 US Gallons.
regds
MEL
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