flyf15
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Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:36 am

Well guys, at my local airport, there is a gentleman by the name of Tom Zweck. He owns a farm just to the north of the runway and severely hates airplanes...and lets say, he complains often.

Check out the following for a nice laugh  Big thumbs up

http://www.wrongmont.com/noise.html
 
USAFHummer
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:40 am

Nice laugh? Ive been laughing for a solid 10 minutes over this...its way more than that!

Greg
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KAUSpilot
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:47 am

6. 2/17. Tom Zweck, 776-1171 called at 3:45 p.m. to complain about the skydivers opening their chutes over his farm making popping noises, the skydiving plane flying north over his farm and litter on his property from the skydivers. Tom also called Barb Huner twice and Phil DelVecchio once about the same.


Ahhaaahahahaha......
 
Illini_152
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Fri Apr 09, 2004 12:47 pm

While it was kind of amusing; it also struck close to home. Many airports have fallen into the trap of bending over backwards to cater to the whims of a few people.

Though THIS one really takes the cake (from avweb http://www.avweb.com/newswire/10_15a/briefs/187024-1.html )
Race Fan Shoots Noisey Cropduster

A NASCAR fan who apparently took exception to a crop-duster's drowning out the televised coverage of a race will spend six months in jail for trying to shoot down the offending aircraft. Anthony Gene Moore, 36, of Lenoir County, N.C., was convicted of a single count of firing into an occupied vehicle after he hit Don Wayne Slaughter's Air Tractor with at least three shots from a .270 rifle. Two shots went through the airplane's left wing and another hit the battery, causing it to explode. Slaughter, 53, heard the shots before he saw a man on the ground firing a rifle at him. He headed for a nearby airport and called authorities. Police found Moore at his home a short time later where he admitted to firing on the plane "because it was annoying him" while he was watching the race. Police seized a Browning .270 caliber rifle and several spent shell casings. They say they think Moore had been drinking


--
Mike
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Fri Apr 09, 2004 4:26 pm

I think that Tom Zwick needs to get Laid.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
wing
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Fri Apr 09, 2004 7:34 pm

In airports which have noise abatement procedures ,the follow of procedures are controlled by noise monitor points.This is done by putting noise recorder to certain points and recording the dB level of overflying aircraft.If an aircraft passes the noise limit it is reported to civil aviation authorities and to its company headquarters.

There is a penalty to be paid incase of noise busting and this makes your Flight operations menager very upset and unhappy which evantually end up ruining your day also.

Like every other procedure we pilots have to follow all rules strictly as it dictates, which will prevent horrific meeting with chief pilot or FOM,and makes us live longer too...


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liamksa
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Fri Apr 09, 2004 8:37 pm

At an AD near my base circuit training is prohibited after about 2100 local for noise reasons. Some instructors choose to give a "full stop" call turning base, do a touch-and-go and then give the "going around" call (ie: do circuits).

Well on the 3rd 'go-around' Farmer Joe under the take-off path has usually had about enough and pulls out is 10,000 (?) watt spotlight and blinds everyone in the cockpit and toally destroys any night vision. The offending aircraft usually gets the point and decides to practice his circuits elsewhere.

I've found that being able to see is quite important when flying so I guees this goes on the list of "Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs"  Big grin
 
ScooterTrash
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Fri Apr 09, 2004 8:43 pm

Well one must admire Mr. Zwek's persistence, if not his mental stability. I really must make a trip to Longmont, CO. I think I will do it in a nice noisy Cessna T210... They have an especially annoying high pitched buzz to them.

Scooter  Smokin cool
 
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Ryan h
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:31 pm

Just to annoy Mr Zwek even more let the air force perform supersonic dives over his house.
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LMP737
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:30 pm

I think that Mr. Zweck is in need of some professional help.
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bhill
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Sat Apr 10, 2004 12:30 am

A person SHOT AT AN AIRPLANE??!!!!..I would've had his ass in jail, and charged with attempted murder!! idiot!!

Bob
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SSTjumbo
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:55 am

92. 6/9. Tom Zweck called to say he hasn’t heard an airplane all day and that it has been eerily quiet today. He wanted to know why nobody was flying today. He said the last time the airport was this quiet was September 12th.


This guy officially has too much time on his hands. How "retired" is he?
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ScarletHarlot
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Sat Apr 10, 2004 5:15 am

He said the “jackass” flew over his house three times and that the pilot disrespects my authority.

Reminds me of Eric Cartman..."You will respect my authoritay!"
But that was when I ruled the world
 
USAFHummer
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Sat Apr 10, 2004 5:19 am

Oddly enough Longmont is only around 80-100 miles from Park County where South Park takes place SH...perhaps Trey and Matt stole the Cartman line from our esteemed Mr. Zwick?

Greg
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bragi
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Sat Apr 10, 2004 5:56 am

Maybe someone should make a low-pass over his house, and drop ear plugs so the poor guy could get some sleep during daytime.... Big grin

Muhammad Ali: "Superman don’t need no seat belt." Flight Attendant: "Superman don’t need no airplane, either."
 
goingboeing
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Sat Apr 10, 2004 6:36 am

In the county where I live is a small airport (general aviation) that can and does accomodate some jet traffic. The airport has been around since the 1940's. Growth in my city has moved southward and is now close to the airport. The county has a "no single family residential development" rule that stipulates no homes can be built within 1 mile of the airport. But a developer bought about 80 acres of land less than one mile from the airport that he wanted to build a subdivision. It's on the downwind leg. The city approved the deal, but the county has refused (so far) the application. That's what bugs me...they'll build $300,000 homes less than a mile from an airport that has been there for 60 YEARS, and end the end, the new homeowners will have more of a say in the future of the airport than anybody else. If for whatever reason the county changes it's mind and ALLOWS this development to start, I think I'll spend my weekends with a sign on the corner that says "Airport 3/4 mile" so that potential homebuyers can't say they didn't know (as if airplanes flying over every couple of minutes wasn't enough of a clue).
 
USAFHummer
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Sat Apr 10, 2004 9:25 am

Goingboeing...thats exactly what happened at my local airport back in PA...the airport was founded in the 1920's, houses and schools were put just slightly offset on both sides of the final approach path in the 70's...and the neighbors cursed up a storm when they expanded the runway to be jet-capable...

Greg
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XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Sat Apr 10, 2004 9:28 am

Goal for the summer- touch and goes in the duchess this summer at 2V2....keep the props at a nice high RPM.  Smile
Chicks dig winglets.
 
Illini_152
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Sat Apr 10, 2004 12:53 pm

A person SHOT AT AN AIRPLANE??!!!!..I would've had his ass in jail, and charged with attempted murder!! idiot!!

What surprised me was that, while he was drunk, he was STILL able to hit the plane with a rifle.


Oh- and for Mr. Zwick, howabouta couple of real loud airplanes doing some early morning training. Like, I dunno, maybe a one of the last flying Connies? Or how long would it take to get a B-36 back in the air? Make a few low approaches. When the windows break from the vibrations, maybe then he'll quiet down (or lose all hearing...)


Happy contrails - I support B747Skipper and Jetguy
 
flyf15
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:11 pm

Illini_152,

We have a few AT-6 Texans based here in Longmont. He has a total and complete fit when they decide to go up...

His lastest idea is that he wants tethered balloons put up by the city surrounding his property that go up to pattern altitude. This would then assure that the people on downwind could not "buzz" his house.
 
gigneil
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Pr

Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:28 pm

Heh... I lived in Longmont for a few months. Never heard a thing.

Crazy.

N
 
Lufthansa
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Sat Apr 10, 2004 3:50 pm

God that was the funniest thing i've red in ages!

I think somebody should call up fedex and get them to do touch and goes over his house.... or better yet the USAF..he can't complain about them. Get them to send an Unhushed 707 for a flyby!

seriously, its guys like this that justify governments spending money on pyscologists. It would be cheaper in the long run than attending the the trouble he causes.
 
Illini_152
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:09 am

His lastest idea is that he wants tethered balloons put up by the city surrounding his property that go up to pattern altitude. This would then assure that the people on downwind could not "buzz" his house.

Hmmm, I wonder how the noise of an airplane crashing into his backyard because it's wing was sheered off by one of these teathered balloons compares to the occasional takeoff?

The banner tow place I worked at over the past few summers had to jump through all kinds of legal hoops to get their airfield approved. Eventually taking it all the way to the State Supreme Court. The end result was, we were very carful about noise complaints, and went way out of our way to be good neighbors. To the tune of making VERY weird traffic patterns to avoid nosie sensative areas nearby-

Downwind was flown at 300' just 600' from the runway. Abeam the touchdown point power was brought to idle and a tight descending 180 degree turn was entered. The problem was, you couldn't see the runway because the trees on either side were 100' tall; we'd be in a descending turn "diving" through a treeline and rolling out on final at around 20'-30' AGL. And did I mention our runway was only 1500' long?

After two seasons of that, I have to remind myself at "real" airports the "correct" traffic pattern...

Mike
Happy contrails - I support B747Skipper and Jetguy
 
BMAbound
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:58 am

Illini 152, that sounds like a kick ass field, remember, if you fly there, I bet nothing will scare you later on...  Big thumbs up

BMA suffers from these problems. It has been there since the 30's and suddenly, those whiners move to a house nearby and then figure out there's an airport nearby. If I got to decide, I'd make them stay there and then let the AVRO RJ 100's cancel IFR and fly a downwind leg at about 25 ft above...

johan
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FlyingColours
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Sun Apr 11, 2004 6:11 am

Is this guy for real???

I am only on number 55 so far but I think we should;

1 - Call in a long line of B52's to do some low flights over his farm
2 - Call in the Thunderbirds and other display teams
3 - Use his farm for target practice
4 - Expand the airport and send in 747's and 737-200's
5 - Build a new runway which cuts across his farm (or aims at his house)
6 - Build some nice shiny and bright approach lights
7 - Build some new larger Apron lights
8 - Perhaps get a tannoy shouting "Welcome to Longmont Airport" near his house
9 - Film a new movie in which an aircraft 'crashes' in his field (The look on his face when he opens his curtains and sees a plane wreck there)
10 - Offer him a skydiving trip

I'll pop back at 100

Phil
FlyingColours
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flightsimfreak
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Sun Apr 11, 2004 6:28 am

It gives his phone number... everyone should call him saying that they are neighbors wiht the people he complains to and that the phone calls are RUINING THEIR LIVES
 
FlyingColours
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Sun Apr 11, 2004 6:36 am

Maybe we should have an A.Nutters meet at the airport, we could then toddle over to his house and show him our DVD's and Videos of aircraft and maybe show some pictures of his farm from the air. Just picture it if we all flew in in our own aircraft, jeeze he would keel over with shock.

How old is this guy anyway, surly no sane young man could call several times almost every day.

The more I read some of the things i kinda understand where he is coming from but instead of complaing correctly and sensibly he just says the pilots should be "Beaten with Sticks and have their licenses removed".

Phil
FlyingColours
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Illini_152
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Sun Apr 11, 2004 6:38 am

BMAbound,

It was more intimidating when you first started than anything else. Once you got into the habit of controlling your descent rate with back pressure and bank angle, and using the seat of your pants for angle of attack, it was alot more fun.

The approach was usually made between "-" and "B", though if you were really feeling lucky, and it was smooth out you could get it down to "k" You see, the airspeed indicator in the trainer Cub was originally out of an Apache, the markings were repainted, but a 240mph airspeed indicator isn't much good when the speed range for the aircraft is 0-90 mph! Above the gauge was a placard "hook - beers". If you landed with your tow hook down, you had to buy the next case of beer.


The runway:

When landing towards the bay, we kept the downwind leg just over that open field surrounded by trees to the right of the runway, and we flew our base/final turn inside the hanger at the end of the runway. Between the hanger and the threshold was a low area full of tree stumps and standing water.

The trainer w/ 240mph airspeed indicator:


Happy contrails - I support B747Skipper and Jetguy
 
USAFHummer
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Sun Apr 11, 2004 6:38 am

We found out via Google he graduated high school in 1965 so that puts him around 57 or so...also, his family has had that farm since way before the airport or even powered flight existed so its not a case of "the airport was there first"...for note I will be flying with FlyF15 around this airport sometime in the near future so we'll let ya'll know how it goes...

Greg
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cancidas
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Sun Apr 11, 2004 1:04 pm

sadly, people like that really do have an effect on the beurocrats. one question, if the airport bothers his that much why doesn't he just move? more than likely, the airport was there before he moved into his house...
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
drgreen757
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Sun Apr 11, 2004 3:06 pm

I'm going to pass out "I love jet noise" stickers in the neighborhood around my airport.
Save the grey ghosts.
 
USAFHummer
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Sun Apr 11, 2004 3:28 pm

Cancidas, read my reply 29, that aint the case here, and just browsing around on the website, this guy is unbelievable in terms of what influence he has on the Longmont city government...and he doesnt even live in Longmont/pay taxes to Longmont etc...his farm is just outside the jurisdictional borders according to FlyF15...

Heres a list from the site of what Mr. Zweck has managed to do...

Mr. Zweck:
...demanded that the City spend approximately $15,000 to reroute City trucks away from his house. DONE
...demanded a pair of binoculars and a camcorder to document airplanes that offend him. DONE
...demanded that trash trucks be re-routed to avoid his house. DONE
...demanded, after someone spilled some grass clippings on the side of Airport Road near his property line, that "NO DUMPING" signs be erected on Airport Road. DONE
...demanded that lights at the City Works building be blacked out or covered. DONE
...demanded that the airport beacon be lowered. WORK ORDER PUT IN. STOPPED. LIGHT SHIELD PUT UP INSTEAD
...demanded that most of the airport security lights be turned off, since they bother him and his cows. DONE
...demands punishment for pilots that offend him. TRIED
...demanded the City pay a person every weekend to monitor the planes flying over his house, this is a recent addition. DONE
...demanded that information going to City Council regarding the airport or skydiving be reviewed by him first, before it goes to Council. DONE (courtesy of DelVecchio)
...has complained about aircraft flying over his property but making no noise. Hiding something?
...chased one skydiver off his property with a steel pipe.
...and his family have been called "a bunch of vicious, creepy animals."
...complained about skydivers yelling "wahoo" on their chutes opening.
...demands pilots licenses be revoked, even though he knows they are breaking no rules.
...implied 9/11, and the lack of airplane noise due to groundings, was good for him.
...demanded the City pay a person every weekend to monitor skydivers in case they got near his property, this has been going on for 6 years. DONE (Reports to the Airport Advisory board show that 2 or 3 skydivers have landed on his property in nearly 100,000 jumps, none in the last 4 or 5 years.)
....shot buckshot into the side of airport hangars.


Greg
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:17 pm

....shot buckshot into the side of airport hangars.

Why didn't the property owner sue the hell out of him for that.

And why wasn't he charged with property distruction or reckless endangerment, or unlawful discharge of a firearm?
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:19 pm

I dearly hope the airport is expanded for jet traffic. Please Big grin
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
USAFHummer
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Sun Apr 11, 2004 6:32 pm

Apparently it gets a Lear every few weeks Starlion, not to mention that a King Air jump plane is based there...and Im sure Mr. Zweck curses up a storm at those...

Greg
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Sun Apr 11, 2004 6:55 pm

Maybe the runway is long enough to support freight service with an IL-76. Or get the Marines there with their Harriers (the noisiest aircraft I´ve ever heard)

Jan
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baw2198
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:16 am

Have the USAF setup camp, install a base for B1b's, and have them in a constant state of practice high alert takeoff's (like the SAC movies with the B52's). Launch everything in the morning and return at night doing overheads at full afterburn  Smile Smile Smile That'll get him and he couldn't complain since its in the interest of "national security"

Cheers

Baw2198
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Aloha717200
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Mon Apr 12, 2004 3:22 am

I read the whole thing over through last night and this morning. What an idiot...and after having read the replies about him to this thread, I think he should be in jail.
 
downingbarry
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Mon Apr 12, 2004 8:14 am

As a student lawyer, it's actually quite an interesting area of law to learn about (in the UK). I won't bore you with the the nitty gritty, but here is the interesting stuff:

As a land owner, you have a right of ownership in the form of an interest in land. So, if you own a field, you have an interest in that field, as an owner.

As part of the owner's rights, you are entitled to everything below the soil (except treasure and stuff like oil), such as the minerals, soil etc..., and you also have a right of airspace, extending from your land.

English law doesn't say when your airspace stops, but it's firmly established that your 'ownership' of the airspace is finite - hence, aircraft flying at 33,000ft over your field don't give you and rise to a claim. This is confirmed by the relevant legislation we have in the UK stating that high-flying aircraft can't give you a claim in trespass, for example.

However, cases have suggested that there is a definite limit to the height at which planes can reasonably fly over property...but they haven't defined that limit. Particular examples including low-flying planes trailing 'banners'.

An interesting case that is developing in my town is between Emirates and the residents of Dormansland. Living 5 minutes away from LGW, you may be aware that Emirates have cameras installed on the underbelly and nosecone of the aircraft, which passengers can watch as inflight entertainment. The residents of Dormansland are trying to take Emirates to court because they believe that on final approaches the cameras can see into people's back gardens and windows, and violates their privacy. Should be an interesting case!

The crux of the matter is that the courts are more ready nowadays to lower the 'reasonable' height at which flying takes place, to give residents claims in trespass. If those incidents had happened in the UK, I would actually dare to say that Tom Zweck might have a claim.

Just another move towards a compensation culture!
 
Illini_152
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:24 am

Downingbarry-

Interesting view from across the pond, but here in the states, airspace is a public commodity. Property owners have no control over the airspace above their property, it is controlled and governed by the federal government.

Happy contrails - I support B747Skipper and Jetguy
 
BA777
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:11 pm

Hmm this Tom Zweck guy....would this be him???

http://www.longmonttrojans.com/gradsz/tom_zweck.htm

Heheh

Henry
 
SSTjumbo
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:16 am

Illini_152, I believe you could theoretically say that in a sparsely populated area, residents own the airspace up to 500' around themselves and their property, hence the FAR's. This obviously might not hold up in a legal battle, but it'd be interesting to see how it plays out in a civil court.
I don't know, so this is my signature.
 
videns
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:27 am

Interesting last name he's got. "Zweck" means Purpose in German...
Travel? Why would i travel if I can watch it on TV?
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:44 am

Whoa, thanks for the picture. He looks kinda dorky if you ask me.
 
USAFHummer
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Tue Apr 13, 2004 6:13 am

ttp://www.frontrangeliving.com/cooking/Zweckfarm.htm

Here's his wife, and his precious veggie stand...wonder what his wife thinks of his shenanigans...dont see her calling to complain, just him...

Greg

[Edited 2004-04-12 23:20:15]
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pilotpip
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Tue Apr 13, 2004 3:08 pm

Maybe, just maybe, if you had a large flight of aircraft fly in formation over his house at the minimum safe altitude at full power, while driving dumptrucks down the road outside his house, hauling trash, with loud music playing, while other trucks drive down with spotlights...

This clown's head might explode  Big thumbs up
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Aloha717200
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RE: Why We Pilots Should Follow Noise Abatement Procs

Tue Apr 13, 2004 4:21 pm

Greg, that last link is broken.

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