david b.
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Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:10 am

There was a thread a short while ago concerning airlines and the B727. Someone asked why don't 727 operators remove the center engine and fly on just two.

In theory if this was done, would the plane have to meet ETOPS certification before it can fly? Same for DC-10 and MD-11s?
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
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RE: Etops

Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:58 am

If I may slightly oversimplify,
ETOPS is for over water to make sure you can get "over land" before you need to. The engine is for weight vs. thrust to make sure you can get fast enough to fly before you run out of runway.
Remember, Engines Turn Or Passengers Swim...
One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
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RE: Etops

Sat Apr 10, 2004 6:29 am

Actually that is a common misconception, ETOPS has nothing to do with water, simply the unavailability of suitable alternate airports en-route.

ETOPS applies, for example, flying down from Europe to South Africa at night, when many airports across the continent are closed. No water there... ETOPS still applies in a twin as you are further than 60 minutes from a suitable airfield.

Clearly it's common application is on Atlantic / Pacific crossings, but don't confuse the issue here - which is suitable alternates, not water.
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RE: Etops

Sat Apr 10, 2004 7:16 am

ETOPS (Extended Twin Engine Operations) describes ER (Extended Range) flights with twin engine aircraft. This applies to flights that are operating over routes that have points further that one hour flying time (one engine, under standard conditions in still air)from an adequate airport (this can be either over land, water or a combination). The FAA allows max diversion times of 75/120/138/180 and 207 minutes. Basically the difference between suitable and adequate is that a suitable airport has to have weather minimums to land were an adequate airport does not (you can get a more detailed definition by reading FAR 139)

[Edited 2004-04-10 00:22:00]
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RE: Etops

Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:36 am

And just for the record, ETOPS= Extended Twin-engine Operation Procedure Specifications.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
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RE: Etops

Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:27 pm

Actually it's "Extended Range Operation with Two-Engine Airplanes"

Regardless the following is a good read if interested.
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RE: Etops

Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:24 pm

Starlionblue and Coa764, you are both wrong.

ETOPS= Engines turn or passengers swim.  Big grin

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