meister808
Posts: 924
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2000 11:45 am

Bonanza Model 35 Spin Characteristics

Fri Apr 30, 2004 11:43 am

A few friends and I got into a slight discussion about the spin characteristics of the V-tail Beech. We realized that we really have no idea what would happen to that airplane in a spin. What is the recovery procedure? Same as for any other retractable single, anything different? Any astonishingly bad characteristics?

Thanks.

-Meister
Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
 
sccutler
Posts: 5614
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: Bonanza Model 35 Spin Characteristics

Fri Apr 30, 2004 12:02 pm

Nope, pretty much normal characteristics.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
QantasA332
Posts: 1473
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 5:47 pm

RE: Bonanza Model 35 Spin Characteristics

Fri Apr 30, 2004 12:32 pm

I'm not sure about spin recovery procedures, but it is a fact that in most cases, V-tail aircraft (along with T-tail aircraft) have better spin recovery characteristics than conventional-tail aircraft. On a side-note, V-tails also usually reduce drag, mainly interference drag (due to the fewer number of control-surface to fuselage junctions). A major disadvantage of V-tails has to do with control-linkage issues...

Cheers,
QantasA332
 
Slcpilot
Posts: 580
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:32 am

RE: Bonanza Model 35 Spin Characteristics

Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:17 pm

I just have a few questions....

Sccutler, do you speak from experience?

QantasA332, why does a V-tail have better spin recovery tendancies?

While my experience with V-tail spins in limited to model airplanes, the ones I flew tended to have poor recoveries, and required POWER & the appropriate aerodynamic control inputs. On more than one occasion I spun in a Doddger (Quickie 500 racer) with little or no damage. It would flat spin very well. Bear in mind I flew this plane as a sport plane and didn't spin it while racing.

I agree that interference drag is reduced with V-tails, but I suspect the net effect is they have their limits. Most (all?) open class sailplanes do not have V-tails, even though many 15m ships do.

SLCPilot

I don't like to be fueled by anger, I don't like to be fooled by lust...
 
QantasA332
Posts: 1473
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 5:47 pm

RE: Bonanza Model 35 Spin Characteristics

Fri Apr 30, 2004 4:50 pm

...why does a V-tail have better spin recovery tendancies?

It is known fact that increased dihedral or effective dihedral (manifested in either the wings or tail, or both) helps to eliminate the spiral divergence mode, and helps recovery from it. Because V-tails are essentially tails of very high dihedral, the aforementioned spin-helping characteristics are present...

Cheers,
QantasA332

(Am I confusing the spin you're discussing with spiral divergence mode? I know what the latter is, of course, but I'm not 100% sure that you're talking about the same thing as I am when you use the word 'spin'...)
 
Slcpilot
Posts: 580
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:32 am

RE: Bonanza Model 35 Spin Characteristics

Sat May 01, 2004 12:31 am

QantasA332,

If you asked me if a V-tailed Bonanza tail had dihedral or anhedral I'd say it had the effect of "anhedral". In other words, if we consider the direction that the tail produces it's lift (down), the tail has anhedral.

I can't answer the question, but I have always wondered why more airliners don't have tails like Falcon 50s, with the tailfeathers being "bent" down slightly.

I always found it interesting that if you were designing a very efficient aircraft you'd put the vertical stab and rudder on the bottom of the fuse so they would provide a rolling moment in the direction of the applied rudder. As it is (on top typically), rudder application provides a rolling moment opposite of the applied rudder direction.

Fly Safe!

SLCPilot
I don't like to be fueled by anger, I don't like to be fooled by lust...
 
meister808
Posts: 924
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2000 11:45 am

RE: Bonanza Model 35 Spin Characteristics

Sat May 01, 2004 3:59 am

Interesting. Thanks, all.

-Meister
Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
 
PPGMD
Posts: 2398
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2001 5:39 am

RE: Bonanza Model 35 Spin Characteristics

Sat May 01, 2004 4:34 am

A major disadvantage of V-tails has to do with control-linkage issues...

That and flying off when you least expect it.  Big grin
AD 94-20-04 R1

The old V-tails are fun planes to fly.
At worst, you screw up and die.
 
BMAbound
Posts: 654
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 5:59 am

RE: Bonanza Model 35 Spin Characteristics

Sat May 01, 2004 5:25 am

Not from personal experience (never flown a V-tail), but my instructor said that people have "problems" (not the right word..) aligning with the runway on final approach. He said there's a lot of rudder work to stay centered.

Anyone experienced this?

johan
Altitude is Insurance - Get Insured
 
QantasA332
Posts: 1473
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 5:47 pm

RE: Bonanza Model 35 Spin Characteristics

Sat May 01, 2004 6:03 am

If you asked me if a V-tailed Bonanza tail had dihedral or anhedral I'd say it had the effect of "anhedral". In other words, if we consider the direction that the tail produces it's lift (down), the tail has anhedral.

Whether a wing/tail/etc. has either dihedral or anhedral doesn't depend on where the lift is going; lift is irrelevant. All that is considered is the angle between the surface in question and 'level', for lack of a better word.

Again, check this thread out...

Cheers,
QantasA332
 
sccutler
Posts: 5614
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: Bonanza Model 35 Spin Characteristics

Sat May 01, 2004 2:51 pm

In my experience, many pilots has trouble lining up- seem to be afraid to use the rudder enough.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
PPGMD
Posts: 2398
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2001 5:39 am

RE: Bonanza Model 35 Spin Characteristics

Sat May 01, 2004 2:54 pm

Never had any problems lining up for normal landings. It did seem to run out of rudder during some x-wing landings. But those are pretty rare these days.
At worst, you screw up and die.

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