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TS-IOR
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738W Vs A320 : Comparison :

Sun May 09, 2004 7:13 pm


Considering a 174Y A320 and a 174Y B738 wingletted,i request comparison regarding leasing prices, on board comfort,fuel consumption,reliability,minimum turn-around time,piloting pros and cons,cabin crew,ease of catering,...

Many thanks...
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: 738W Vs A320 : Comparison :

Mon May 10, 2004 4:00 am

Keep in mind that Airbus advertises 164 pax in an pure Y configuration, so to squeeze another passengers 2 seat rows in, you must reduce seat pitch below 32-inches. As for the 738, Boeing intentionally made it larger than the A320. Thus it is possible to seat 174 with a respectable pitch, but I am not sure of the exact value.
 
 
dan2002
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Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2002 7:11 am

RE: 738W Vs A320 : Comparison :

Mon May 10, 2004 4:04 am

There is a lower operating cost, 95% common airframe spares, 95-100% ground equipment commonality, the window seat space is bigger, the controls are interlinked, and there is a large control displacement, the -NG famoly has greater range with max fuel, there is better engine compatability (CFM56-7B**),less fuel burn,quiter engines & low emission, the 738 climbs to FL350 12 minutes faster than the 320, the 738 has greater short field range, access to the engine is simplified cutting maintnence costs, it is the lowest cost, highest profit 170- seat aircraft,the operating costs are 12% higher for the 320, the 738 has a 17% profit advantage over the 320,there is a lower cargo door and can be easily reached from the ground and there is less need for special cargo equipment, and that provides a quicker trunaround time.

Sorry I wasnt able to post all of the numbers and such, I am in a hurry, but if you email me I will get back to you with them.

-Dan
A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
 
HaveBlue
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Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:01 pm

RE: 738W Vs A320 : Comparison :

Mon May 10, 2004 10:12 am

Dan,

What started on April 26, 2004? Referring to your signature of course.
Here Here for Severe Clear!
 
QantasA332
Posts: 1473
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 5:47 pm

RE: 738W Vs A320 : Comparison :

Mon May 10, 2004 10:32 am

...less fuel burn...

In fact, if you look at the aircraft's engine's SFCs and calculate raw fuel consumption, the two aircraft are almost identical in those terms.

Cheers,
QantasA332
 
Alitalia744
Posts: 3777
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: 738W Vs A320 : Comparison :

Mon May 10, 2004 10:38 am

haveblue-

i'm thinking he means the day the next generation of aircraft was finally launched, the next magnificent 7-series aircraft...the 7E7.

-G
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
dan2002
Posts: 2024
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2002 7:11 am

RE: 738W Vs A320 : Comparison :

Tue May 11, 2004 5:49 am

Alitalia744, yep you had it right, look at the topic, the first reply said, well, what my sig says now.


-Dan
A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
 
Q330
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 5:30 pm

RE: 738W Vs A320 : Comparison :

Tue May 11, 2004 7:58 am

Dan2002, I find it hard to believe that anyone would actually buy the A320 if your figures were correct. What is your source?

-Q
Long live the A330!
 
avioniker
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Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 5:38 am

RE: 738W Vs A320 : Comparison :

Tue May 11, 2004 8:15 am

It's my belief that the bean counters are in love with their blinders.
The initial acquisition cost for the A320 family are significantly less than the 737NG's (and that makes them highly attractive to a company that wants new and cheap) but once the ashtrays get full it's another story all together.
I used to supervise a ramp with both classic 737's and 320's and I could count on a 737 being done with two people max even with an A check. The 320's were another story entirely. You needed Avionics, composites, and at least one good mechanic on every plane. A and B checks were another nightmare. Smoking clamps, delaminated panels and, God Forbid, a lightning strike should have gone unreported. That plane wasn't going anywhere easy.
I'm certain the labor and training costs haven't been accounted accurately or completely by anyone that I know of. I simply can't abide by the figures Airbus gives.
I just know that it took a heck of a lot more effort to get a bus out in the morning than a Boeing if there was any scheduled inspection on the overnight.
One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
 
dan2002
Posts: 2024
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2002 7:11 am

RE: 738W Vs A320 : Comparison :

Tue May 11, 2004 8:42 am

Q330, Boeing, and its not like I am taking everything they say verbatim, but you have to consider the deals that Airbus gave for the 320, and much of what I posted is almost common knowlage in this forum.


-Dan
A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
 
QantasA332
Posts: 1473
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 5:47 pm

RE: 738W Vs A320 : Comparison :

Tue May 11, 2004 9:16 am

According to Airbus (most of these are direct quotes), the A320 family:

-Has the widest seats of any other aircraft in its class (namely the 737NG family)
-Has the widest aisle of any other aircraft in its class
-Is the widest single-aisle aircraft of any other in its class
-Has faster boarding and deplaning times than any other aircraft in its class
-Has larger overhead stowage bins than any other aircraft in its class
-Has a better dispatch reliability than any other aircraft in its class
-Is the world's most profitable single-aisle family
-Has unmatched cargo capability
-Has the most modern fly-by-wire technology on the market
-Has the lowest fuel burn of any other aircraft in its class
-Has the lowest emissions of any other aircraft in its class
-And, finally, has the smallest noise footprint of any other aircraft in its class

In no way do I believe all of the above. The point I'm trying to make is that those sorts of claims must be taken with a grain of salt, and not treated as end-all be-all fact. From Airbus or Boeing, it doesn't matter.

Cheers,
QantasA332
 
musapapaya
Posts: 990
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:02 am

RE: 738W Vs A320 : Comparison :

Tue May 11, 2004 12:28 pm

but the airbuses are more quiet...
and the 'skills' of assembly is better?
I flew on a new ryaniar 738, and the areas next to the window is vibrating and making noises... while this is not happening on a older 320, can anyone explain this?

Lufthansa Group of Airlines
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: 738W Vs A320 : Comparison :

Tue May 11, 2004 1:43 pm

Has the most modern fly-by-wire technology on the market

An interesting assertion, and one that became true only recently. The 320 now has the FBW system of the 346 standard.

There is a lower operating cost, 95% common airframe spares, 95-100% ground equipment commonality, the window seat space is bigger, the controls are interlinked, and there is a large control displacement, the -NG famoly has greater range with max fuel, there is better engine compatability (CFM56-7B**),less fuel burn,quiter engines & low emission, the 738 climbs to FL350 12 minutes faster than the 320, the 738 has greater short field range, access to the engine is simplified cutting maintnence costs, it is the lowest cost, highest profit 170- seat aircraft,the operating costs are 12% higher for the 320, the 738 has a 17% profit advantage over the 320,there is a lower cargo door and can be easily reached from the ground and there is less need for special cargo equipment, and that provides a quicker trunaround time.

Half truths and assertions.

N
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: 738W Vs A320 : Comparison :

Tue May 11, 2004 7:03 pm

but you have to consider the deals that Airbus gave for the 320

Good grief, we're back to that one again? I had hoped that this line had finally gone away, but I guess it really is here to stay.

Dan2002, do you honestly think that airlines such as Air France, British Airways, Lufthansa, United, South African Airways, Finnair and TAM all only bought the A320 series because the acquisition costs were low?

An salesperson with that attitude would be thrown out the door of most, if not all, airlines within minutes of his arrival.

It just does not work that way: airlines don't buy planes based on the acquisition price alone - if they know that they'll be paying for their selection within a short timeframe, such as your numbers suggest, they won't make that selection... only the most desperate of airlines would make a selection based on acquisition cost and short term savings, all others take the long term effect into consideration.

And using figures from Airbus' or Boeing's website in a discussion such as this... please...

TS-IOR, if you want or need reliable numbers, contact ILFC, GECAS or other leasing companies - they'll be able to give you those numbers (but I'd really have a good concept about a startup carrier available when contacting them - don't think they're likely to give out those numbers to anyone asking).

Regars,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
gkirk
Posts: 23345
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: 738W Vs A320 : Comparison :

Thu May 13, 2004 8:23 am

BTW, you can get 180 pax in a 320 and 189 in a 738  Big grin
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: 738W Vs A320 : Comparison :

Fri May 14, 2004 7:58 am

Avitas is the best source for such numbers, and each publication the 738/320 and 73G/319 jockey back and forth for position.

N

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