airways6max
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 6:22 am

Window Shades Must Be Up For Takeoff And Landing

Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:23 am

When I flew home yesterday, the flight attendant asked everyone to put up their window shades during takeoff and landing, along with buckling your seat belts and putting your tray tables up. Anyone know why the window shades must be up for takeoff and landing?
 
Cessna172RG
Posts: 642
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2000 8:31 am

RE: Window Shades Must Be Up For Takeoff And Landing

Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:28 am

I've experienced this before, flying on Singapore Air...

From LAX to NRT in a 744, and three months later from NRT back to LAX, during takeoff and landing we were told to have the shades up. But, they were very strict about keeping the shades down during our enroute time. Now, I'm a shades-up sorta guy, and if I'm in a plane, sitting behind the wing, I'm gonna want to watch the wings and look down and enjoy the scenery. That was the ONLY thing bad about my SQ flight. The rest was pure magic.
Save the whales...for dinner!!!
 
broke
Posts: 1299
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 8:04 pm

RE: Window Shades Must Be Up For Takeoff And Landing

Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:28 am

If there is an accident during the take-off or landing, the shades need to be up so the F/A's can see if there is any fire and, if there is, which exits to use or not use to avoid putting passengers into more jeopardy.
Years ago a DC-10 aborted a take-off at LAX and a gear fire resulted. The fire spread under one exit and at least 4 passengers lost their lives during the evacuation.
 
flyinfroggie
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 4:46 am

RE: Window Shades Must Be Up For Takeoff And Landing

Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:31 am

I have never heard this on a US domestic flight... however, I've heard it on every domestic Colombian flight that I've been on (Avianca and AeroRepublica)
 
MMEPHX
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:54 am

RE: Window Shades Must Be Up For Takeoff And Landing

Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:16 am

and a related item......why do they dim the cabin lights for take-off and landing?
 
September11
Posts: 3293
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Window Shades Must Be Up For Takeoff And Landing

Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:22 am

another related item..... why do seats must be straight up (not reclined) during take-off and landing?

safety is #1 priority in airline industry
Airliners.net of the Future
 
gustyorange
Posts: 191
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:53 am

RE: Window Shades Must Be Up For Takeoff And Landing

Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:23 am

MMEPHX,

I understand the cabin lights are dimmed so that your pupils don't have to adjust to the darkness outside if you are evacuated.

Gusty
 
iairallie
Posts: 2326
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 5:42 am

RE: Window Shades Must Be Up For Takeoff And Landing

Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:36 am

Window shades- Most domestic US carriers do not require window shades up unless you are having a planned emergency landing. There are one or two that do require window shades to be up during all TO's and landings (CAL is one I think). The reasoning is that you need to be able to rapidly and clearly assess the conditions outside during an evac. They do however need to be up for every TO and landing on emergency exit windows.

Seatbacks- A couple of reasons 1. The person behind you may need to get out in a hurry if you have to evacuate and every inch of space helps. You don't want to block their egress 2. The seat design- in an impact an the upright locked seat has the most structural integrity. 3. In an impact or sudden stop (perhaps in an aborted take off nearing decison speed) you are less likely to suffer whiplash or neck injury.

Dimming the lights- We dim the lights to better aproximate the conditions outside so that in an emergency you're eyes will adjust to the light (or lack thereof) faster. Ever step out of a movie theatre on a sunny day? We also do it for your comfort many people want to sleep.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
HALFA
Posts: 1027
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:24 am

RE: Window Shades Must Be Up For Takeoff And Landing

Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:51 am

Add Hawaiian Airlines to the list of US carriers requiring window shades raised for taxi, take off and landing and as explained is so the FA's can assess the conditions outside should an evacuation become necessary and this would also be why we dim the lights at night so we can see the conditions outside better, in a evacuation.

Aloha
HA J Class Lie flats, coming soon to a plane near you........
 
SUPRAZACHAIR
Posts: 474
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:27 pm

RE: Window Shades Must Be Up For Takeoff And Landing

Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:55 pm

Add Hawaiian Airlines to the list of US carriers requiring window shades raised for taxi, take off and landing and as explained is so the FA's can assess the conditions outside should an evacuation become necessary and this would also be why we dim the lights at night so we can see the conditions outside better, in a evacuation.

I was just going to say that this was the case when I flew to OGG on HA last year. I didn't mind closing the shades during flight, as the Pacific get boring after the first couple hours, plus I actually wanted to see the movie.
 
msllsmith
Posts: 387
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 3:25 am

RE: Window Shades Must Be Up For Takeoff And Landing

Thu Jun 10, 2004 4:09 am

2 cents.....

re: window shades.....it's not an FAR.....so pax cannot be required to raise shades, but can be requested to raise shades.... for the above safety reasons already mentioned.....shades down enroute is really just so pax can see the movie, and also to keep them asleep after the sun rises and the FAs are ready to serve them breakfast and want to wake them up to get ready to land (fill out landing paperwork etc.).... I always felt bad for a child who had never flown.....they can watch videos alll the time....but how often can they experience clouds and other weather patterns at 35,000 ft?

re: dimming lights.....night vision in case of an emergency.

LLS
There's nothing more beautiful than flying into the dawn.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Window Shades Must Be Up For Takeoff And Landing

Thu Jun 10, 2004 4:43 am

re: window shades.....it's not an FAR.....so pax cannot be required to raise shades, but can be requested to raise shades....

FARs require passengers to comply with company policies and to follow crewmember instructions, so you can be required to raise the shades yes.

N
 
 
Gregg
Posts: 313
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2000 12:49 pm

RE: Window Shades Must Be Up For Takeoff And Landing

Thu Jun 10, 2004 6:25 am

It is a FAR that window shades in emergency exit (over wing) exits must be open for takeoff.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11377
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Window Shades Must Be Up For Takeoff And Landing

Thu Jun 10, 2004 8:02 am

TZ used to announce that they wanted shades raised, but stopped doing this sometime around the summer of last year.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
kalakaua
Posts: 1430
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:23 pm

RE: Window Shades Must Be Up For Takeoff And Landing

Thu Jun 10, 2004 10:06 am

It was announced on my AQ PHX-SNA flight. But not on SNA-PHX. I don't know.
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
msllsmith
Posts: 387
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 3:25 am

RE: Window Shades Must Be Up For Takeoff And Landing

Thu Jun 10, 2004 9:14 pm

I stand corrected as far as compliance with co. policy is concerned.

re: exit row windows.... The pax who choose to accept to sit in the exit rows are, in theory, more acquiescent to rules and regs.

From personal experience however, sometimes quoting co. policy doesn't hold much weight to an irate pax. Years ago I insisted a pax raise her window shade(s) and she became wildly belligerent. The final call, to waylay a really dumb scene just before landing (other things to do) she got her way. It's always easier to get compliance when a specifically related FAR is able to be quoted. Personally, I think shades up is a good deal. But in the realm of critical things to complete a flight safely..... having all the window shades raised are way down on the list....so far down as to almost not exist. Ask any guy/gal in the front of the a/c.

There's nothing more beautiful than flying into the dawn.
 
Goldenshield
Posts: 5005
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 3:45 pm

RE: Window Shades Must Be Up For Takeoff And Landing

Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:53 pm

On a related note, I believe that there should be a regulation forbidding the use of reading lamps during takeoff and landing.  Smile I can't even count the number of times where I am trying to look out the windows, and someone within 3 rows of me decides to read during the last few minutes of flight.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
azfan777
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:01 pm

RE: Window Shades Must Be Up For Takeoff And Landing

Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:33 am

On Alitalia, everytime I fly them to Italy they always come around and have you lower the windowshades, I understand why they do this, so that people can sleep/view movie, but I enjoy looking out the window even if its only for a short time. Does anyone know if most airlines do this or just certain ones?
 
airplay
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:58 am

RE: Window Shades Must Be Up For Takeoff And Landing

Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:18 pm

Why do passengers question every single thing they are requested to do on board? And why are flight crew oblivious to the reasons if the applicable FAR isn't spelled out explicitly?

Is there a FAR that states all wings must be attached during takeoff and landing? Well not explicitly!

Check out FAR 121.310, 121.291 and FAR 25.811 and FAR 25 Appendix J with respect to emergency exits. After all that research, consider that it isn't all that cut and dry how or why you are told to comply with certain requirements during your flight. Some aircraft may require special consideration to meet the evacuation requirements.

For example, there aren't any regulations directly requiring table trays to be stowed during takeoff and landing, but there are regulations regarding evacuation and aisle width during emergencies, which tend to occur during takeoff or landing.

All this doesn't mean that every aircraft is the same or that sometimes you won't be told to position the window shades for courtesy sake. But all you have to do as a passenger is listen to the flight crew. Is that too much to ask?
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: Window Shades Must Be Up For Takeoff And Landi

Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:18 pm

Of course landing on ATA L-1011 and CO 767 charters in Kuwait and Saudi, we almost always land at night, and always in light out conditions-- and must put the shades DOWN. State side I've never been asked to do it.

Same thing on the E-3, light out. Of course we only have "shades" on the doors LOL.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Yankee Air Pirate
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
QantasA332
Posts: 1473
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 5:47 pm

RE: Window Shades Must Be Up For Takeoff And Landing

Fri Jul 02, 2004 7:27 pm

Yesterday, I arrived back home in SYD from AYQ (QF). Though it was night, the cabin lights were not dimmed for landing - could that just have been a case of someone forgetting, or what?

Cheers,
QantasA332

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests