Ps76
Topic Author
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Largest Aircraft To Be Stalled (successfully)?

Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:42 am

Hi.

Was thinking about the largest aircraft to ever be stalled recently, wondering what it is. I read in an fs2004 PMDG 737 manual that 'a stall is an unacceptable condition of flight for a 737' or something like that, but could it theoretically be done and recovered successfully / would there be lots of damage. Has any crazy test pilot tried stalling a 747 etc.

Please pardon my ignorance if this is a really dumb question!

Thanks for the info,

P
 
cdfmxtech
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RE: Largest Aircraft To Be Stalled (successfully)?

Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:50 am

All airplanes are stalled during Flight Tests in the certification process to test for stall characteristics amongst other things. So yes, the B747 has been stalled.

[Edited 2004-06-16 04:51:25]
 
EMBQA
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RE: Largest Aircraft To Be Stalled (successfully)?

Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:02 pm

..and let me tell you, its better then any ride at a Theme park....!!

I've seen the test video of the stall test for the 747-100, 747-400 and 777. Looked like fun. I've been on board a Saab 340 doing full stalls...LOTS of fun
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
cancidas
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RE: Largest Aircraft To Be Stalled (successfully)?

Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:58 pm

stalls are fun, unless the pax you are carrying next to you start to freak out!
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
AJ
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RE: Largest Aircraft To Be Stalled (successfully)?

Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:58 pm

Boeing 747s have been stalled a few times in revenue service, the most famous being the China Airlines SP over the Pacific Ocean. A Singapore based major airline has stalled both Boeing 747-400s and A340-300s over Central Asia a few times.

It is a situation best avoided.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Largest Aircraft To Be Stalled (successfully)?

Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:49 pm

Worth noting that even the airliners have "positive dynamic stability" as a design feature. There is nothing exceptional about their stall characteristics except that if stall entry is power off, it may take a while to get spooled up and get some thrust back to fly you out of the condition. It will return to the state it was trimmed for and basic pitch and power still applies.

Now at high altitude, well you can have my share of it.

Lots of fables on this subject that are just not true.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
PhilSquares
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RE: Largest Aircraft To Be Stalled (successfully)?

Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:54 pm

In doing acceptance flights of new aircraft, one of the tests is to take the aircraft to "initial buffet".

I have done this on the 747 and 747-400 numerous times. No big deal, the stick shaker c/b is pulled, a initial buffet speed is calculated. You set a minimum EPR/N1 and just sit there and trim and fly the airplane.

To the poster who referenced a "major airline in Singapore", perhaps you'd like to give some more specifics. I work for a "major airline in Singapore" and it's news to me. I do know of several other carriers who have gotten to stickshaker, but not a stall. Perhaps it's another one of those legendary aviation myths.
Fly fast, live slow
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Largest Aircraft To Be Stalled (successfully)?

Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:57 pm

An airline I know used to have new captains do a recovery from initial buffet as part of their command training on the 747 classic. That was deemed far too crazy and now they do it in the sim only.
 
QantasA332
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RE: Largest Aircraft To Be Stalled (successfully)?

Wed Jun 16, 2004 3:31 pm

All aircraft - even the very large - stall at some point in there lives, be it only during flight testing. After all, no plane can/should really enter service without stall characteristics examined and stall control procedures practiced...

Cheers,
QantasA332
 
AJ
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RE: Largest Aircraft To Be Stalled (successfully)?

Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:07 pm

Philsquares, following one of your company aircraft through the multiple turns over the Southern 'Stans a pan was transmitted with the reason 'stalled'. The aircraft descended about 6,000' without a clearance, then climbed back to their cleared flight level. The controller calmly vectored aircraft away from the errant 747, as the climb was also conducted without a clearance. After that no more was said until the flight was passed on to the next frequency.
 
A330
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RE: Largest Aircraft To Be Stalled (successfully)?

Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:57 pm

AJ, I would really like to know howon earth these guys stalled their Celestar A340 if in revenue service and presumably in Normal law...
Shiek!
 
PhilSquares
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RE: Largest Aircraft To Be Stalled (successfully)?

Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:45 pm

Not to direct this posting at anyone member, but as A330 pointed out, you can't stall the 345 in direct law. I do find it rather difficult to believe about the -400.

I also find it hard to believe the incident(s) have been hushed up. There is a very active FDQAP program at SQ and there has not been anything about the alleged incidents.

I think what you're referring to is the same as the "Warren" incident at QF
Fly fast, live slow
 
AJ
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RE: Largest Aircraft To Be Stalled (successfully)?

Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:49 pm

Philsquares, think what you will.
 
AJ
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RE: Largest Aircraft To Be Stalled (successfully)?

Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:56 pm

A330, sorry, missed your post in there. I was not present for the event over Calcutta, and it wasn't the 345 Phil, it was a 343. Not being Airbus rated I won't comment further.

As for the -400, stick shakers are not uncommon during high level LNAV turns when approaching maximum altitude, especially with the temperature shifts prevalent around the Himalayas. The situation I witnessed was as I related in my previous post.

"I think what you're referring to is the same as the "Warren" incident at QF"; patronising will get you nowhere.
 
Ps76
Topic Author
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RE: Largest Aircraft To Be Stalled (successfully)?

Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:28 pm

Hi,

Just wanted to say a quick thanks for all the info

Believe it or not was actually imagining a stalled airliner with lots of pieces flying off the wings and internal structural damage and flight computers bouncing off the walls!!

Don't know how I'd handle experiencing one of those though, I mean give me a few air pockets and a descent angle even slightly more than normal and I'm starting to panic  Smile!!

Thanks again

Pierre
 
PhilSquares
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RE: Largest Aircraft To Be Stalled (successfully)?

Thu Jun 17, 2004 10:21 am

If the stall occurred in any FBW airbus, it is impossible. The 343 has the same control laws as the 345, a stall is impossible while in normal law.

I have been on the 747/747-400 for over 15 years, I have never had a stick shaker at high altitude. I guess I don't fly the aircraft that close to max altitude. Plus I am not sure what stall protection you have in your FMS, so it may be a common occurrence at QF but not at SQ.

Again, I am not as you say, being patronizing, but something like what you have described would have spread through SQ like wildfire. It could have been an engine problem that required a descent to a lower altitude. But again, I find what you described just a little hard to believe. Again, it's like the "Warren" story.

Fly fast, live slow
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Largest Aircraft To Be Stalled (successfully)?

Thu Jun 17, 2004 10:42 am

Wasn't there an incident where the SQ 340 crew turned off all the pumps (Can't remember if they were hydraulic or fuel)? What were the consequences of that? I remember reading about it in Flight.
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: Largest Aircraft To Be Stalled (successfully)?

Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:08 pm

I seem to remember a magazine article stating that the A380 actually has negative dynamic stability about the longitudinal axis, but the flight software is designed to give it positive stability. Anyone else heard this, or am I just remembering wrongly?
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
411A
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RE: Largest Aircraft To Be Stalled (successfully)?

Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:29 pm

In the early eighties, SaudiArabian operated TriStars on an extensive network, and 'round about 1982, started to do their heavy maintenance checks in JED.
After the first 'D' check, I personally was scheduled for a PC in the aircraft, the simulator then not approved for PC's/type ratings.
After the PC was completed, we climbed up to 8000msl, and completed a series of full stalls, both clean and in the approach configuration.
A Lockheed senior production test pilot was in the RHS just to be sure everything went according to hoyle.
An interesting experience, to say the least.

Think i'll leave the test flying to test pilots.

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