sq452
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CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Sun Jun 20, 2004 6:20 am

Flew out of BOS to EWR yesterday on CO863...delayed forever,

but literally as we held short of the runway some french man two rows behind me ran his flight attendant call button and then said "there's a piece of the plane missing", and he was right...

the fuel "pylons" as the pilot referred to them as, on the 737-800 (located under the flaps and when flaps are deployed, they move with the flaps, see picture at end here). I checked cause of course i was concerned when he said a piece of the plane missing. Sure enough, the back section of one (in a cone, triangular shape) was completley not there on the pylon under the outermost flaps. Right side/wing had one, but the left one was missing the end piece!!!

So the flight attendant ran back and called up front, and about 30 seconds latter the the pilot came on and said "hear there is a bit of concern, we know there is a piece of the pylon missing, and we've factored that in so there's nothing to be concerned about".

so my question is, why would they just leave a piece missing???

it would be the end piece similar to this picture:


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Photo © Tim Lachenmaier



[Edited 2004-06-19 23:30:04]

[Edited 2004-06-19 23:32:49]
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mNeo
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..sca

Sun Jun 20, 2004 6:25 am

beacuse that part of the plane is only for aerodynamical purposes. also since the plane is going to EWR (COs hub) they can repair it there. no need to waste anymore time in BOS
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deltaffindfw
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Sun Jun 20, 2004 6:28 am


Maybe they didn't have the piece readily available.

Same thing happened to me on a 733 flight from DFW-PDX. Some piece was missing on the right side near the engine - again, pointed out by a passenger. Pilot called ATL ops and was told to put some more fuel in to compensate for the drag?, and we took off. I was surprised that DFW people didn't have the part, but who knows!

I trust Delta ops, so it didn't bother me!
 
sq452
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Sun Jun 20, 2004 6:31 am

yah i mean I could even see through the holes were the screws would go! just looked tacky...
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VC-10
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Sun Jun 20, 2004 6:31 am

Because it was damaged?

Part of the MEL called the CDL (Configuration Deviation List) contains details of what parts of the plane that are permitted to be missing for dispatch. Each entry will contain any performance decrements ( weight/fuel penalty, speed restriction etc) that are required.

For example a 747 is allowed to be dispatched with a flap fairing missing.

[Edited 2004-06-19 23:43:08]
 
OPNLguy
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Sun Jun 20, 2004 6:41 am

Nothing really scary about it at all, as it sounds like a routinely deferred CDL item...
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aloges
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Sun Jun 20, 2004 6:54 am

"For example a 747 is allowed to be dispatched with a flap fairing missing."

Indeed, here's a photo:
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ryan Spencer Morgheim - The Arctic Adventure

And while I'm at it, here's a neat thread on missing flap fairings: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/tech_ops/read.main/88825/
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320tech
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Sun Jun 20, 2004 10:28 am

Missing bits are generally nothing to be concerned about (a wing is not a "bit"  Smile ). As mentioned, all airliners have a configuration deviation list, which defines what can be missing. The aircraft maintenance manual will even define which screws can be missing from which panels.

I encourage anyone who sees something amiss to point it out to the crew, but unless you see it leave, or fluid is pouring out of it, it's generally okay.
The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the manufacturer and impossible for the AME.
 
L-188
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Sun Jun 20, 2004 10:39 am

Just to be correct, we are actually talking about a flap-track fairing right?
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320tech
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Sun Jun 20, 2004 11:32 am

Oh, yeah. Don't know a whole lot about 737's, but I've never heard of a "fuel pylon". I hope that's not what the pilot actually said.
The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the manufacturer and impossible for the AME.
 
sq452
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Sun Jun 20, 2004 2:34 pm

he said pylon, forget if it was "fuel pylon", i dont know what the term is exactly but he did refer to it as just "pylon"
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L-188
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Sun Jun 20, 2004 5:09 pm

I spent the whole summer of 94 unloading N753AS, the last 727 that Alaska Airlines owned.

Since it was the last owned, and it was a freighter, they never replaced that 1st flaptrack fairing on the right side. It was missing the whole summer.
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phollingsworth
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Sun Jun 20, 2004 11:18 pm

Back in my days in maintenance engineering I remember coming across an authorization to dispatch and L1011 that was missing one or both of the nose gear stop pads (the friction pads in the nose gear wheel well that stop the rotation of the nose gear wheels). The order mandated that the gear remain extended for about one minute after take-off. The performance guys were on our case for weeks because of that (maintenance replaced that part withing a day or so).

As for missing flap track fairings, other than aerodynamics, they do serve to protect the actual flap tracks from some of the elements. I know, that the 727 and 737 classic, and probably by extension the 747 flap carriage cones are subject to corrosion, they are high tensile 4330(?) steel. I spent allot of time looking into the condition of these parts.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Mon Jun 21, 2004 12:42 am

At LH we used to refer to this piece as the "ice cream cone"

Jan
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sq452
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Mon Jun 21, 2004 2:19 am

yah, it does look like an ice cream cone....thats what i was referring too....take away the ice cream and it just looks like a cone  Smile
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SonOfACaptain
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:16 pm

Yeah I was an A319 a few years back and a lot of pieces were missing. A guy called the F/A but she said all was good. And well it was lol.

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Starlionblue
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:45 pm

Lots of wuffos think the flap track fairings contain fuel. A holdover from the old days when marginally similar structures were tanks. For example on the Super Connie and the Jetstar.

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wing
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:20 pm

In an airplane there is a book which contains an approved list of what parts or systems can be inoperative during the flight.This is called MEL (minimum equipment list).

In MEL you can find which equipment can be removed or stickered"inop" for how long time and if the airplane can be given to service by the maintenance.

I am not sure if it is allowed or allowed how long to fly without flap fairrings since I don't have access to a mel at this time but if that airplane is given to the service it sure must be checked from the MEL and taken under records by the captain and the maintenance guys.There is nothing to be scarry under this circumstances.Regards.WING
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OPNLguy
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:57 pm

Wing,

The MEL is indeed as you say, but a missing fairing or other external part that might affect the aerodynamics of the aircraft is covered by the Configuration Deviation List (CDL) as noted above in other replies...

Cheers...
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Starlionblue
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:48 am

You can probably fly like this for quite a while, but two things will act as an incentive to get it fixed:
- Higher fuel burn.
- Risk of FOD from gravel etc on the flap mechanism.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
SlamClick
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:07 am

As mentioned, the CDL will have performance penalties for missing pieces.

A few years ago on rotation for a very heavy 737 takeoff, we got an ANTI-SKID amber light. We took off and climbed out and got out the QRH to look up the fault. It turned out the be "pilot awareness" only, with no corrective action required or available to us.

About five hours later on descent into destination we got an ACARS message that one of our aircraft had left a tire cap and landing gear doors on the runway on takeoff. Well, we knew it was us. We sent the jumpseater back to peek through the periscope and see if he could see any other damage. He could not find the periscope. There was nothing else to be done, and so we continued in for a landing with the equipment standing by.

It turned out that the main gear tire cap had come off, ripped the landing gear door right off the airplane and beat some big dents in the underside of the wing. The tire was still inflated and we taxiied in with no further problem.

I flew the plane again a few weeks later and it was still missing the gear door. I got into the CDL and was surprised by what I found. On the 737 the landing gear door is less of a drag penalty than the hubcap!

Oh! Still don't know why the anti-skid light. It was apparently undamaged.

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OPNLguy
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:36 am

>>>It turned out that the main gear tire cap had come off, ripped the landing gear door right off the airplane and beat some big dents in the underside of the wing. The tire was still inflated and we taxiied in with no further problem.

>>>I flew the plane again a few weeks later and it was still missing the gear door. I got into the CDL and was surprised by what I found. On the 737 the landing gear door is less of a drag penalty than the hubcap!

>>>Oh! Still don't know why the anti-skid light. It was apparently undamaged.


Don't ask me what part # is connected to what part #, but if you lose the hubcab you lose the anti-skid...


CDL 32-41-1 Main Gear Outboard Wheel Speed Transducer Cover and Hubcap Fairing Assembly

Apply anti-skid inoperative performance and procedures limitations.

Remarks and/or Exceptions

Associated anti-skid system must be turned off.

One or both assemblies may be missing provided antiskid inoperative performance limited weights are reduced for each missing item.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
dl757md
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:40 pm

Don't ask me what part # is connected to what part #, but if you lose the hubcab you lose the anti-skid...

I think when SlamClick says tire cap he's referring to the re-tread or re-cap of the tire itself rather than the hub cap fairing.

Dl757md
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flashmeister
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:01 pm

It turned out that the main gear tire cap had come off, ripped the landing gear door right off the airplane and beat some big dents in the underside of the wing. The tire was still inflated and we taxiied in with no further problem.

I'm not a pilot, so not questioning, but curious: my understanding of the 737 is that there is no landing gear door -- at least for the mains -- that instead, they're sealed with the tires and hubcap exposed. Are you talking about the nose gear door? Or is there a door that I'm missing here?  Smile
 
QantasA332
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:08 pm

my understanding of the 737 is that there is no landing gear door -- at least for the mains -- that instead, they're sealed with the tires and hubcap exposed. Are you talking about the nose gear door? Or is there a door that I'm missing here?

While you're right that the wheels themselves aren't covered by any door, there is a door that covers the struts all the way up to the wheels. You may be able to see what I'm talking about in this picture:


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Photo © Bruce Leibowitz



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flashmeister
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:34 pm

Ahh yes, of course... I forgot that the wheels had to attach to something. The marvels of engineering.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Thanks for clearing that up.
 
T prop
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:09 pm

I'll bet this isn't on the CDL  Laugh out loud


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Norman Gage



As far as that antiskid caution light on the 37. A tire throwing a cap may cause wheel rotation speed to change as compared to the other three. The antiskid might pick that up as a system malfunction and illuminate the light.


T prop.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!

Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:22 pm

With the hub cap you might loose the drive key for the wheel speed transducer. It will simply net be driven anymore. Since on rotation the other wheels will still rotate and therefore create a wheel speed signal, the one missing wheel might be seen by the ASCU as a faulty transducer.

You can defer a lot more if you get an EO to base your signature on.

Jan
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