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HAWK21M
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Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Fri Aug 06, 2004 8:05 pm

Whats the Advantage of a Towbarless v/s a Towbar Towing vehicle if there is Any.
I'm very familiar with A towbar Vehicle,but have not seen a Towbarless towing vehicle in Action.Anyone having detailed pictures on how it works.
regds
HAWK
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willo
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RE: Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Fri Aug 06, 2004 9:15 pm

 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:58 pm

Anyone with pictures.
Regds
HAWK
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Leezyjet
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RE: Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:22 am

With a towbarless tug, there is only one pivot point - being the actual nose wheel itself.

With a tug and bar, there are 2 pivot points - the nosewheel and the bar/tug.

Therefore it is slightly easier to manouver the a/c in tight spaces with a towbarless tug (or TBL as they tend to be known).

 Smile
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Msl747
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RE: Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:50 am

"Anyone with pictures"

Yup

Towbar:

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Towbarless:

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-Msl747 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Commercial Pilot Certificate: Single and Multi-Engine Land; Instrument Airplane
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Sun Aug 08, 2004 3:52 am

Nice Pics.Are there Any Pics with a closer view.
How is the Mounting/Demounting of the Towbarless mechanism carried out.
regds
HAWK

[Edited 2004-08-07 20:53:21]
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
air2gxs
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RE: Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Sun Aug 08, 2004 4:21 am

On the towbarless I have used:

You drive up and center up on the gear (chocks out)
Drive the tug forward until contacting the tires with the cradle (a light on the dash illuminates)
Close the cradle. Again a light illuminates when closed and locked.
Lift the nose until, you guessed it, a light illuminates.

I preferred using towbarless because I felt I had more control of the tug/aircraft. I insisted on it when pulling into, or out of, a crowded hangar or parking area.
 
BryanG
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RE: Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Sun Aug 08, 2004 4:34 am

I've never, ever seen a TBL used in the USA. They must be extremely rare here.

Most people here are used to seeing "pushbacks," as we call towbar-using machines. That betrays the typical scope of their jobs... merely to back the aircraft up away from the gate and turn it around. A TBL system would be terribly complex if that's all you need to do.
 
air2gxs
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RE: Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:49 am

Actually a towbarless system is less manpower intensive, safer (no towbar to shear) and holds the aircraft under more positive control. The pushes appear to be smoother and can be done faster.

Most airlines in the US already have a large capital investment in tug/bar combinations, why change if you don't have to? We have a couple in our SDF operation because we need them at certain spots. And as I said earlier: We just love them for going into and out of traffic.
 
cancidas
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RE: Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Sun Aug 08, 2004 1:18 pm

i actually got to play with a towbar-less tug once and didn't really like it. give me a towbar and tug any day. i love having that long stick up front.  Big grin
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Sun Aug 08, 2004 2:22 pm

Yes, but those towbarless tugs contain more proximity sensors and relays than an A/C. Here in CGN they always break down.

Jan
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air2gxs
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RE: Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:18 pm

We wound up taking out all the factory sensors and installed our own (when the warrenty expired). Now they hardly ever breakdown.
 
Dalmd88
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RE: Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:38 am

Towbarless tugs are used in the US. DL has two in ATL. Don't look for them at the gates though. They are rarely used for pushback. They are kept busy moving airplanes to and from Maintanence or remote parking areas. This is what they are best at since they can travel at taxi speeds. I believe CO also has some at EWR.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:10 am

ARN is full of them. Classic Scandinavia. Manpower is way expensive there and investing in the latest gadgets to save on it pays off sooner than in most of the rest of the world.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
WomBat151
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RE: Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Mon Aug 09, 2004 4:27 am

Is a towbarless tug rare in europe? Here at Schiphol Amsterdam (AMS) we almost only use Towbarless trucks.


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Contact_tower
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RE: Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:10 am

The towbarless tugs are also said to be better on ice/snow because of greater traction. Hence very attractive in Scandinavia.
 
AAR90
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RE: Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:07 am

I've never, ever seen a TBL used in the USA. They must be extremely rare here.

Virtually all AA's LAX pushbacks are done with the new tugs.
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ordflyer
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RE: Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Mon Aug 09, 2004 12:06 pm

ATA uses towbarless tugs for pushback at MDW, as well as moving planes back and forth from the hangars.
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:34 pm

I have seen the towbarless tugs at IAH moving 777s and 767s around
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LineMechQX
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RE: Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Mon Aug 09, 2004 4:13 pm

Horizon uses TBL's "lectrocarts" exclusively for pushbacks, the only time we use towbars are moving airplanes for maintenance. ie in the hangar.

Late
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TechRep
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RE: Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Sat Aug 14, 2004 4:18 am

Also aircraft must be certified for towbarless towing. For example the Dornier 328 prop is certified and the 328 JET is not.

TechRep
 
DAL7001
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RE: Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Sun Aug 15, 2004 8:32 am

Actuay we at DL have three in ATL. We refer to them as supertugs which are made by Goldhoofer. We us them mainly at night to move a/c to/from mtc areas to their gates. We also do alot of gate/gate movements prior to the morning push.
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Mr.BA
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RE: Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Sun Aug 15, 2004 7:36 pm

Actually I was wondering about the physics behind this tow-truck thing. Say you tow a fully laden B747 which has mass about 395,000kg you'll probably need a force of about 500000N to get it moving... how is it possible for the truck to produce such a force without the tires screeching the ground? Amazing...
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Klaus
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Mr.BA

Sun Aug 15, 2004 8:54 pm

The "Supertugs" carry the nose landing gear, they don´t just drag it. That´s the trick. They grab the gear and lift it up. As a consequence, they don´t need much ballast weight (if any), since the plane will already supply it.

Conventional tugs come with significant amounts of ballast to get enough traction.
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:52 pm

You could always do it YXY style where the aircraft are positioned far enough back from the terminal so the bridge is streched out a little more then come time to leave its pulled in and swings to the side, leaving just enough room for the 737 to do a very tight right turn and taxi out all on its own power. And for towing to/from the hangars the only people that do that here are Air North and they use a large forklift type thing that they rigged up to tow their HS748s and B732s between the terminal and their barns.

Just thought I'd throw in a story from the north  Smile
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SUPRAZACHAIR
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RE: Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:42 pm

You could always do it YXY style where the aircraft are positioned far enough back from the terminal so the bridge is streched out a little more then come time to leave its pulled in and swings to the side, leaving just enough room for the 737 to do a very tight right turn and taxi out all on its own power..

This is called a spin out. We (QX) have one spot at SEA that we spin out from. The rest we use the TBL Lektro's to push.
 
teva
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RE: Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:18 pm

Now, FMC is producing towbarless pushbacks. As a result, it will be more and more common in the States.
Another advantage of thos push: you need only one person to push an aircraft.
Teva
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lorm
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RE: Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles

Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:23 pm

I swear I've seen one of these towbarless tugs in SFO many years ago bring a UAL 742 to our gate from MX to the hanger.. whether they stilll have them there I don't know. Looked really neat when they dropped/rolled off/disconnected (whatever it was =P), you could see the whole front of the plane compress back down onto the oleo almost like on landing.

Edit: Aloha at HNL does something similar to spinouts at their jetways behind gate 34 at the Aloha/Hawaiian concourse. They just pull them out just enough just to make the tight turn as there is limited space on the taxiway at their east gates. On my trip home from Boston 2 trips ago, we broke a towbar on pushback. Taxied back on our own power to the gate and had to inspect the nosegear. Everything turned out okay and I am home safely  Laugh out loud

[Edited 2004-08-20 12:34:42]
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