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Starlionblue
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777 And 330/340 Ailerons Drooping With Flaps

Mon Aug 30, 2004 5:16 am

Since the 777 and 330/340 ailerons droop with the flaps (I assume there are other types with this characteristic), doesn't this make them flaperons instead of ailerons?
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XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: 777 And 330/340 Ailerons Drooping With Flaps

Mon Aug 30, 2004 5:30 am

Not much of an answer, but more of an addition- but the A320's ailerons also droop with the flaps.  Smile
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QantasA332
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RE: 777 And 330/340 Ailerons Drooping With Flaps

Mon Aug 30, 2004 5:52 am

Yep! Any ailerons that droop uniformly (with a main intent other than roll control) are technically flaperons.

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MD11Engineer
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RE: 777 And 330/340 Ailerons Drooping With Flaps

Mon Aug 30, 2004 6:07 am

Douglas does it too, on the MD-11, but you can only move them down (controlled by the FCCs)only if there is weight on the wheels and spoilers are down. e.g. the plane is in take off configuration for a little extra lift.

Jan
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Starlionblue
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RE: 777 And 330/340 Ailerons Drooping With Flaps

Mon Aug 30, 2004 6:08 am

Ok good info. Just to continue in this vein, I guess Concorde had flapevons (sic?) since the outboard surfaces were flaps, ailerons and elevators.

Some military jets have elevons (elevators+ailerons). Does any commercial jet have elevons?
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SlamClick
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RE: 777 And 330/340 Ailerons Drooping With Flaps

Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:24 pm

The DHC-2 Beaver had flaperons.

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ConcordeBoy
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RE: 777 And 330/340 Ailerons Drooping With Flaps

Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:49 am

Concorde had flapevons (sic?) since the outboard surfaces were flaps, ailerons and elevators.

flaps... on Concorde?
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Starlionblue
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RE: 777 And 330/340 Ailerons Drooping With Flaps

Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:45 am

Ah, no flaps on Concorde. I guess it depended entirely on angle of attach and thus had elevons.

In fact, now that I check (bad me for not doing this earlier) this drawing http://www.concordesst.com/inside/8.html has lables for "elevon" (88) on the outboard surfaces while the inboard surface is labeled "elevator" (77).
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Areopagus
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RE: 777 And 330/340 Ailerons Drooping With Flaps

Tue Aug 31, 2004 9:36 am

on the MD-11, but you can only move them down (controlled by the FCCs)only if there is weight on the wheels and spoilers are down. e.g. the plane is in take off configuration for a little extra lift.

As soon as the gear leaves the ground you lose some lift? What kind of sense does that make?

 
DAL7e7
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RE: 777 And 330/340 Ailerons Drooping With Flaps

Sun Sep 05, 2004 12:07 pm

Areopagus:
I think he means you can only move the handle down when there is weight on the landing gear.

I think that the 330/340 need them for places like SXM, where they could really use it. Also, does that come standard, or is it an option?

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RE: 777 And 330/340 Ailerons Drooping With Flaps

Sun Sep 05, 2004 1:46 pm

From what I understand, the deflected ailerons (name givem by McDD to them) only work for take-offs not landings.

IIRC from my MD11 flight dispatch days, this system increased max take-off weight in 3 tons. Or putting it on a reversed order, I had to deduct 3 tons from the mtow given by my runway analysis charts, if it was inop.

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RE: 777 And 330/340 Ailerons Drooping With Flaps

Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:23 am

DAL7e7: I think that the 330/340 need them for places like SXM, where they could really use it. Also, does that come standard, or is it an option?

All Airbus FBW planes have aileron droop - that means all except A300/310.

It is simply a function in the control software - as far as I know they always droop when ordinary flaps are lowered beyond a certain point.
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Francoflier
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RE: 777 And 330/340 Ailerons Drooping With Flaps

Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:09 am

A bit off topic, but I noticed on many Airbuses, especially the A320 family, that the rudder is moved to its stop by the wind....

Isn't there any kind of gust lock device on those a/c?
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Mr.BA
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RE: 777 And 330/340 Ailerons Drooping With Flaps

Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:09 pm

It happens to other Airbuses and Boeings as well. I think basically the control surfaces are powered by hydraulics and once they're turned off there's no force in positioning the control surfaces. And the A320s (as well as the B777s) have some pretty light rudders so it just deflects with the wind.
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Klaus
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Francoflier

Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:08 am

It has been mentioned in a parallel thread that large jets usually don´t have gust locks for their rudders, but they have dampers to prevent damage when hitting the stops.
 
bahadir
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RE: 777 And 330/340 Ailerons Drooping With Flaps

Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:08 am

As soon as the gear leaves the ground you lose some lift? What kind of sense does that make?


It does make perfect sense. The airplane loses some lift as it gets away from the ground due to the reduction in ground effect. You don't notice that because increased speeds and the thrust makes up for it..
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310_engineer
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RE: 777 And 330/340 Ailerons Drooping With Flaps

Thu Sep 09, 2004 6:02 am

All Airbus FBW planes have aileron droop - that means all except A300/310

FYI: A310/A300-600 do have a 10° aileron droop.They droop when the Slat/Flap lever move out of the 0° detent. This is from the moment you select slats. Actually the droop command comes from the Kreuger selector valve.
Another info: the A310 was the first commercial aircraft to have FBW systems installed.
 
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RE: 777 And 330/340 Ailerons Drooping With Flaps

Thu Sep 09, 2004 6:20 pm

The 767 also has drooping ailerons with flap extension.

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