UAL747
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Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

L-1011 Shuddering On Take Off

Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:02 am

Around 1997 I flew on an L-1011 from DFW-ATL. I remember right after take off, the plane just started shaking. It wasn't turbulence, but the whole plane was vibrating for a short while. Someone once tried to explain that perhaps it was the smooth flow of air over the wing trying to detach itself, but I don't remember exactly. Any answers?

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
markk
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RE: L-1011 Shuddering On Take Off

Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:04 am

If it was right after leaving the ground it was most likely out of balance tires vibrating the plane until the were stopped and stowed.
 
AMS
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RE: L-1011 Shuddering On Take Off

Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:05 am

Yes I understand what you mean!, I flew many times Royal Jordanian between
AMS-JFK on L1011's, and remembered also similar shaking (sometimes)
Although I am unsure what the cause was?!

Regards,
AMS
 
Type-Rated
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RE: L-1011 Shuddering On Take Off

Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:12 am

I remember flying on TW and DL's L10's. It seemed that while you were on takeoff roll everything would shake! Side panels, overhead light fixtures, etc. And it would be a most visible shake too! It would stop within seconds of liftoff. A F/A that worked the L-1011 once told me "Shimmy time in the summertime is takeoff time!"
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
MAS777
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RE: L-1011 Shuddering On Take Off

Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:26 am

From what I recall - most takeoffs pre-1990s were always quite rattly. Be it 747 Classics, L1011s, DC10s - overhead bins used to pop-open and ceiling fixtures used to shake on take-off. It was not uncommon for bags to fall out of compartments on touchdown - I seem to recall - and it never seemed to matter which airline/aircraft you were on. I put most of it down to poor quality fittings which have all been improved over the years - such that we get beautiful cabins that hardly tremor nowadays.

Take-off vibration was explained to me by a pilot friend of mine - as I often noticed this onboard MAS 744s and thought it was an MAS phenomenon but in fact he flies BA 744s and they get it too - its due to wheel spin from the main undercarriage which often stops once the wheels stop rotating and stow into their compartments... as Markk has explained.
 
stirling
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RE: L-1011 Shuddering On Take Off

Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:26 am

Type-
I heard that same line! But I heard it a little differently,
"Takeoff time in the summertime is shimmy time!"

I only flew the L1011 on Rich International (Ex-ANA) to Hawaii. Quite a trip. I too remember the rather noisy and unnerving takeoff from SFO, and more so from OGG and HNL back to SFO.
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TUNisia
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RE: L-1011 Shuddering On Take Off

Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:52 am

I had the pleasure of flying on one of TWA's last L-1011 flights from STL-BOS back in the day. It was a great flight, and yes all of my L-1011 flights were characterized by that shimmy right at takeoff. Nonetheless, I always felt safe on a L-1011 and it seemed to be one of the best planes at dealing with turbulence.

Also, I've noticed that a lot of the AZ A32X flights that I've been seem to sway side to side just before takeoff... why is this?

TUNisia
Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
 
Thrust
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RE: L-1011 Shuddering On Take Off

Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:00 am

THe L-1011 may have shuttered on takeoff...but it was still one of the safest passenger aircraft ever to fly...no other aircraft in the L-1011's time racked up a near perfect safety record. Almost all the L-1011 crashes I have heard about were either due to the weather (the DL L-1011 crash at DFW due to microburst)...pilot error (TWA N11002, written off due to aborted takeoff at JFK)....or fires on the ground (TWA L-1011 N31007, was parked at the time). Only major problem were the Rolls Royce engines at the beginning of service in the early 1970s. The DC-10 may have been bigger than the L-1011, more flexible in range...and may have generated greater sales...BUT as we all know was no match for the L-1011 in terms of safety.
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
OB1504
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RE: L-1011 Shuddering On Take Off

Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:57 am

Since I only flew the L1011 when I was 4, I thought that the shuddering was quite fun. I actually do remember the extreme vibration, especially because it was my first flight.
 
nwa man
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RE: L-1011 Shuddering On Take Off

Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:03 am

I've been on a couple of NW DC-10s that shuddered while taking off... the last one being a Reef Runway departure from HNL-SEA. Can't say I enjoyed the shaking too much, even though I knew everything was okay... I just wanted to get to sleep, which wasn't made very easy by the vibrations.


Regards,

N-Dub
Create your own luck.
 
trintocan
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RE: L-1011 Shuddering On Take Off

Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:15 am

Yes I have noticed that shudder on BW TriStars on take-off - once an overhead compartment dropped open on take-off! Mercifully the bag contained therein did not fall out and injure anybody. The panels would just shake violently during the take-off run and just until after lift-off.

TrintoCan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
SOU146
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Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:46 am

RE: L-1011 Shuddering On Take Off

Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:33 am

I also noticed some shuddering/vibration a few years back when I flew LHR - HKG - AUK on a CX A343 on the initial climb out off the runway (I was sitting just behind the wing, in one of the window seats).
 
SegmentKing
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RE: L-1011 Shuddering On Take Off

Tue Sep 07, 2004 4:03 am

a lot of what people mention has it right on the dot: spinning wheels. You also need to take into account the runway condition. I've been flying the ERJ's from Key West to Orlando lately and I've noticed how "rough" they feel while on the ground, so its just not the classics.

Boeing, from what my friends tell me, started using different types of shocks & bearings for their main landing gear attachment points, which is why you don't feel it as badly on the 737/767/767/777, which I have noticed to seem to "ride the runway" smoother..

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
DeltaRules
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RE: L-1011 Shuddering On Take Off

Tue Sep 07, 2004 4:20 am

Also, I've noticed that a lot of the AZ A32X flights that I've been seem to sway side to side just before takeoff... why is this?

TUNisia- This has been driving me crazy for a long time. I've noticed it on the A310, A319/320/321 & A330, but have never known why the plane sways like it does, even when it's stopped.

DeltaRules
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spacecadet
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RE: L-1011 Shuddering On Take Off

Tue Sep 07, 2004 4:26 am

If you were sitting at a certain point behind the wings, you probably felt the ground effect vortices. This is normal and happens in all aircraft, at least those with wing-mounted engines, whether they be new or old, depending on where you're sitting. I felt it in my last two 747 flights but have also felt it in DC-10's, L1011's, 767's, 757's, and other aircraft with wing-mounted engines (I'm honestly not sure if you'd feel it in an airplane with only tail-mounted engines).

You will also feel thermal vortices coming off the ground shortly after liftoff, especially on a hot day. Runways can get very hot and reflect that heat back into the air. Though this will usually feel more like light, regular turbulence...
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