Blackbird1331
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Single Pilot Ops

Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:38 am

I do not see anyone in the right seat. Should the pilot be wearing an oxygen mask?


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flyingbronco05
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RE: Single Pilot Ops

Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:15 am

Plane is flying below 41,000 feet so the crew is not required to wear oxygen masks. I bet the person taking the shot is the co-pilot Big grin
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dan2002
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RE: Single Pilot Ops

Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:23 am

Yea, they are at FL360, so I dont think that would matter. Hell, I dont think you need oxygen masks unless there is a decompression. Concorde flew at 60,000 feet and they did not need masks. And yes, apparantly he is a CP, see these pics,


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LY744
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RE: Single Pilot Ops

Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:45 pm

I think what Blackbird1331 is referring to is a regulation (probably airline-specific) that suggests when a single pilot is at the controls he/she should be wearing an oxygen mask in case a rapid decompression does occur. That is if my memory isn't playing tricks on me again...  Big grin


LY744.
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Blackbird1331
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RE: Single Pilot Ops

Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:16 pm

Yes, LY744, I was. I don't know what an airliner actually does during a rapid decompression, so I must ask, would the co-pilot be of any use if he is not in his seat and strapped in?
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futureuapilot
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RE: Single Pilot Ops

Wed Sep 22, 2004 8:25 pm

I know for sure that Continental requires the other pilot to wear the oxygen mask when the other is away, they also don't allow beards... it's not a style issue, it's so they can keep a tight bond with the mask and the face.
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longhauler
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RE: Single Pilot Ops

Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:45 am

That rule was changed about 5 years ago in Canada. When one pilot left his seat, the other used to have to wear his oxygen mask. When Transport Canada demonstrated that when it happens, it really doesn't matter whether one or two pilots are in their seats. Namely, if time were that much of an issue, then both pilots should wear masks all the time. Its not, so they don't.

As said above however, it is a rule at Air Canada, that pilots do not wear beards for the reasons above. I have seen though, many other airline's pilots wearing beards.
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Blackbird1331
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RE: Single Pilot Ops

Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:11 am

Thank you for the responses. One last question. How much training goes into single pilot emergency landings?
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SlamClick
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RE: Single Pilot Ops

Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:56 am

As Blackbird1331 is posting from the USA I'll assume that he is referring to US regulations. Under FAR 121.333 above Flight Level 250 when one pilot leaves his seat, the other pilot must "put on and use" the oxygen mask. This is whether or not the aircraft has quick-donning masks etc. Under US FARs these guys would be in violation of that rule.

They are, however, Qantas pilots operating, apparently, in international airspace. I'd believe that they are still subject to Company rules and the Australian regulations governing this type of operation. I'll let someone address that who actually knows what they are talking about.

We can usually hear the difference in the sound when someone transmits using a mask mike.

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L-188
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RE: Single Pilot Ops

Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:05 am

And add that just because the co-pilot isn't in his seat doesn't mean he isn't on the Flight deck either.

For all we know, Mr Jackson might be the copilot on these flights Big grin
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SlamClick
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RE: Single Pilot Ops

Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:21 am

Howdy L-188
Actually the wording of the regulation makes it necessary even if one guy gets up out of his seat, even if he does not leave the cockpit.

Note to FAA: Prove it! This might happen all the time! Guys might get up to check a circuit breaker or grab a sandwich out of their bag or just to stretch their legs without the other guy strapping on the nosebag. On the other hand, maybe we are all religious about it>

Maybe cockpit cameras will produce higher compliance rates. Won't you feel safer then?
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DeltaGuy
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RE: Single Pilot Ops

Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:17 am

Cockpit cameras may lead to less nosepicking too  Big grin

AJ is indeed a Qantas 767 F/O...has some amazing shots.

DeltaGuy
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airplay
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RE: Single Pilot Ops

Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:37 am

Here is the standard in Canada:

605.32 (1) Where an aircraft is operated at cabin-pressure-altitudes above 10,000 feet ASL but not exceeding 13,000 feet ASL, each crew member shall wear an oxygen mask and use supplemental oxygen for any part of the flight at those altitudes that is more than 30 minutes in duration.

(2) Where an aircraft is operated at cabin-pressure-altitudes above 13,000 feet ASL, each person on board the aircraft shall wear an oxygen mask and use supplemental oxygen for the duration of the flight at those altitudes.

(3) The pilot at the flight controls of an aircraft shall use an oxygen mask if

(a) the aircraft is not equipped with quick-donning oxygen masks and is operated at or above flight level 250; or

(b) the aircraft is equipped with quick-donning oxygen masks and is operated above flight level 410.


The FAA says:

Sec. 91.211

Supplemental oxygen.

(a) General. No person may operate a civil aircraft of U.S. registry--
(1) At cabin pressure altitudes above 12,500 feet (MSL) up to and including 14,000 feet (MSL) unless the required minimum flight crew is provided with and uses supplemental oxygen for that part of the flight at those altitudes that is of more than 30 minutes duration;
(2) At cabin pressure altitudes above 14,000 feet (MSL) unless the required minimum flight crew is provided with and uses supplemental oxygen during the entire flight time at those altitudes; and
(3) At cabin pressure altitudes above 15,000 feet (MSL) unless each occupant of the aircraft is provided with supplemental oxygen.
(b) Pressurized cabin aircraft.
(1) No person may operate a civil aircraft of U.S. registry with a pressurized cabin--
(i) At flight altitudes above flight level 250 unless at least a 10-minute supply of supplemental oxygen, in addition to any oxygen required to satisfy paragraph (a) of this section, is available for each occupant of the aircraft for use in the event that a descent is necessitated by loss of cabin
pressurization; and
(ii) At flight altitudes above flight level 350 unless one pilot at the controls of the airplane is wearing and using an oxygen mask that is secured and sealed and that either supplies oxygen at all times or automatically supplies oxygen whenever the cabin pressure altitude of the airplane exceeds 14,000 feet (MSL), except that the one pilot need not wear and use an oxygen mask while at or below flight level 410 if there are two pilots at the controls and each pilot has a quick-donning type of oxygen mask that can be placed on the face with one hand from the ready position within 5 seconds, supplying oxygen and properly secured and sealed.
(2) Notwithstanding paragraph (b)(1)(ii) of this section, if for any reason at any time it is necessary for one pilot to leave the controls of the aircraft when operating at flight altitudes above flight level 350, the remaining pilot at the controls shall put on and use an oxygen mask until the
other pilot has returned to that crewmember's station.


So...you don't have to have the feed-bag on below 410 as long as you have quick donning masks which are quite common these days.

One type of quick-donning mask uses oxygen system pressure to inflate and stretch the headband(s) of the mask while you pinch the handling tangs on the front of the mask. Once you release, the straps contract and the assembly grips your head like a claw.

In the "old days" it was quite common to see airline crew members with masks draped around their necks in cruise with both pilots in the cockpit and the mask on and operating with a single pilot. Oh yah...and he/she needs to be strapped in with the entire 5-point harness too!
 
FoxHunter
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RE: Single Pilot Ops

Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:26 am

"So...you don't have to have the feed-bag on below 410 as long as you have quick donning masks which are quite common these days."

Incorrect, the FAR you quoted is Part 91, Airlines operate under Part 121. Above FL250 one pilot must wear the mask if the other leaves his seat, above FL410 one pilot must wear it at all times. Funny, when the 747SPs were around the FAA exempted at least one airline from the above FL410 rule.
 
airplay
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RE: Single Pilot Ops

Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:52 am

FAR 121 states:

c) Use of oxygen masks by flight crewmembers.
(1) When operating at flight altitudes above flight level 250, each flight crewmember on flight deck duty must be provided with an oxygen mask so designed that it can be rapidly placed on his face from its ready position, properly secured, sealed, and supplying oxygen upon demand; and so designed that after being placed on the face it does not prevent immediate communication between the flight crewmember and other crewmembers over the airplane intercommunication system. When it is not being used at flight altitudes above flight level 250, the oxygen mask must be kept in condition for ready use and located so as to be within the immediate reach of the flight crewmember while at his duty station.
(2) When operating at flight altitudes above flight level 250, one pilot at the controls of the airplane shall at all times wear and use an oxygen mask secured, sealed, and supplying oxygen, in accordance with the following:
(i) The one pilot need not wear and use an oxygen mask at or below the following flight levels if each flight crewmember on flight deck duty has a quick-donning type of oxygen mask that the certificate holder has shown can be placed on the face from its ready position, properly secured, sealed, and supplying oxygen upon demand, with one hand and within five seconds:
(A) For airplanes having a passenger seat configuration of more than 30 seats, excluding any required crewmember seat, or a payload capacity of more than 7,500 pounds, at or below flight level 410.
(B) For airplanes having a passenger seat configuration of less than 31 seats, excluding any required crewmember seat, and a payload capacity of 7,500 pounds or less, at or below flight level 350.
(ii) Whenever a quick-donning type of oxygen mask is to be used under this section, the certificate holder shall also show that the mask can be put on without disturbing eye glasses and without delaying the flight crewmember from proceeding with his assigned emergency duties. The oxygen mask after being put on must not prevent immediate communication between the flight crewmember and other crewmembers over the airplane intercommunication system.
(3) Notwithstanding paragraph (c)(2) of this section, if for any reason at any time it is necessary for one pilot to leave his station at the controls of the airplane when operating at flight altitudes above flight level 250, the remaining pilot at the controls shall put on and use his oxygen mask until the other pilot has returned to his duty station.
(4) Before the takeoff of a flight, each flight crewmember shall personally preflight his oxygen equipment to insure that the oxygen mask is functioning, fitted properly, and connected to appropriate supply terminals, and that the oxygen supply and pressure are adequate for use.


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