CYEGsTANKERS
Posts: 234
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 8:01 am

De-icing Fluid Types

Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:00 am

What are the differences between type 1 and 4 de-icing fluids? Are they "both" detectable in a photograph?
What is the fluid used here?
Richard

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kaddyuk
Posts: 3697
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:04 am

RE: De-icing Fluid Types

Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:14 am

Wrong forum for this buddy  Smile

At a guess (I have been told before but cant remember)

The difference is in their operating temperatures....
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
cancidas
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RE: De-icing Fluid Types

Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:30 am

type 1 is used for de-icing. type 4 is used for anti-icing. simply, type 4 has a higher viscocity so that it will stay adhered to the wing for longer periods of time (usually until 80 kts) so that ice and snow do not accumulate. type 1 is very thin compared to type 4, so it's just used to get ice and snow off the plane.
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cylw
Posts: 408
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2000 2:34 pm

RE: De-icing Fluid Types

Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:22 pm

Some more differences:

Type 1: Applied HOT (around 180F), pink in color
Type 4: Not heated, green in color

Type 4 must be applied to a clean (not contaminated by snow, ice) surface. You can not put Type 4 on a contaminated surface, you need to de-ice first.

 
SkydrolBoy
Posts: 334
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RE: De-icing Fluid Types

Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:26 pm

The Type one my company uses is applied at 140F and is orange
 
geoffm
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Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 5:58 am

RE: De-icing Fluid Types

Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:35 pm

The one and only time a plane I've been on, being de-iced was at HAJ. We got to the edge of the apron, about to go onto the taxiway to the runway, no holding or waiting for ATC clearance, yet they sprayed us with a viscous, blue gel just before entering the runway. As Cancidas says, it blew off once we got up to speed.

So if we weren't iced up (there was snow and ice on the ground BTW, temps probably at or slightly below freezing), why only use type 4 when we'd been cleared to take off?

Geoff M.
 
cylw
Posts: 408
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2000 2:34 pm

RE: De-icing Fluid Types

Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:38 am

So if we weren't iced up (there was snow and ice on the ground BTW, temps probably at or slightly below freezing), why only use type 4 when we'd been cleared to take off?

That seems very strange to me. When I did de-icing we had to apply Type 1 then immediately Type 4 to the surface in question. Type 4 is pretty expensive stuff too, and we would only use it when it was snowing pretty bad to achieve a longer hold-over time.

What would be the point of applying anti-ice fluid for the minute it takes to become airborne??

This fluid must have been some other type of DE-ICE fluid. Maybe the colors are different in Europe??

I've heard of some airlines applying Type 4 when a plane overnights so theres no frost on the airplane in the morning.


 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: De-icing Fluid Types

Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:22 am

I only use the colors that CYFL as a general rule of thumb. I don't believe there is a color standard for de-ice fluids like there is for coloring Avgas for type.

Goeffmm, What was the humidity? Some charts recommend anti-ice above freezing for any number of reasons. Including moisture on the wing adiabatically (Damm inop spell checker  Pissed ) as the plane climbs.
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MD11Engineer
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Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: De-icing Fluid Types

Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:43 am

Don´t forget about fuel temperature. If the plane came in after a long cruise at altitude, the remaining fuel in the wings will be supercooled. Moisture from the air will condense and freeze on the wing, often as clear ice, only detectable by feeling.

We use Killfrost Type 2 in a 75/25 percent mix with water both for deicing and anti-icing. It has a slightly jelly-like consistency and is applied at about 80°C.

Jan
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L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: De-icing Fluid Types

Thu Oct 28, 2004 8:23 am

Damm. Forgot about that MD11.

And I should have known better. When I was working at Alaska a decade ago, anytime an MD80 had a short stop it got deiced due to that.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: De-icing Fluid Types

Thu Oct 28, 2004 8:28 am

Although in my defense I should add that I have never seen that done on a MD-80 with anything other then type 1. Because by definition Type 4 should be used on a clean wing, not one that has been on the ground for 1/2 hour frosting up.

We use mostly type IV on our medivac bird. It lives in the hanger so we spray it down before going outside during precip.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
geoffm
Posts: 2082
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 5:58 am

RE: De-icing Fluid Types

Thu Oct 28, 2004 5:09 pm

L-188/MD11, the plane had just come in from Heathrow. Been on the ground for about 45 minutes I think. It was a BD 757 if that makes any difference. Humidity I'm guessing wildly here, but maybe 30-40%.

Geoff M.
 
mia
Posts: 813
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RE: De-icing Fluid Types

Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:13 pm

My friend Will here at FSU speculates they use Natural Ice (NattieLight) to de-ice planes. From personal experience he says it is capable of destroying anything; from liver, to stainless steel.
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