brodiebrazil
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2003 12:56 pm

Airline Pilots... Logo Light On/off?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:20 pm

Just wondering at what point do you turn on the light that illuminates the tail logo...

Also for pilots who don't like to turn them on, what is the reasoning?
 
wilco737
Posts: 7279
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: Airline Pilots... Logo Light On/off?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:18 pm

hi Brodie,

we (LH) switch them on during the night, when we are on the Ground and climbing. Af about FL100 we switch off landing lights and runway turnoff lights and also the logo light. And during approach we turn on all those lights again passing FL100. The logo light only by night...

WILCO737
 
tbanger
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 6:11 pm

RE: Airline Pilots... Logo Light On/off?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:58 pm

A lot of operators disable them because the lamp is often located on the top or bottom of the hori-stab. That thing usually shakes itself to bits......well not quite, but it often causes lamps to blow frequently. Especially on turboprops.



 
cancidas
Posts: 3985
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:34 am

RE: Airline Pilots... Logo Light On/off?

Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:14 pm

i usually ask them to turn them on around dusk if they don't have it on so that i can actually see the startup diamond that i have to push them to.

other than that. it's up to the company as to when to put them on. it's in the ops specs.
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
Mr Spaceman
Posts: 2723
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 5:09 am

RE: Airline Pilots... Logo Light On/off?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:33 am

Hi guys.

Sometimes there are very late arrivals into Toronto Intl Airport (YYZ) that you can't help but notice if you're awake at 2:00 to 3:00 am (and are listening to a scanner Big grin).

When this happens (I guess these flights have delayed departures, etc), I can't help but wonder about noise complaints from people who live beside the airport, and I have even entertained the thought of.............

Do the pilots of these late arrivals ever turn off their logo lights once on final, or even consider doing so, to avoid public noise complaints from being aimed directly at their airline? (I live to far away to see their tails late at night).

I know a flight crew has more important things on their minds than noise complaints during final approach, but I've still wondered about this.  Laugh out loud


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[Edited 2004-11-08 17:35:18]
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RNOcommctr
Posts: 774
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RE: Airline Pilots... Logo Light On/off?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:23 am

A related question-- when did logo lights come into popular use? I don't seem to remember them before the early 90's or so. Maybe I just didn't notice.
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ramper@iah
Posts: 236
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2001 7:23 am

RE: Airline Pilots... Logo Light On/off?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:43 pm

Some airlines don't even have logo lights installed - like American. The logo lights are entirely optional, I'm not aware of any policies that require them to be illuminated at night. Sometimes pilots turn them off just because they're pissed at their company for some reason or another - like when in stalled contract negotiations. Why give free advertising to the company you're mad at?
 
avt007
Posts: 1989
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2000 4:51 am

RE: Airline Pilots... Logo Light On/off?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:21 pm

Logo light observations from a bored AME- Dash 8 logolights are mounted on the bottom of the horizontal stab and are quite reliable. I hardly changed any during my time on that type. F28s- we had a fleet of 30 at CRA, and they came from all over the world, with a big spread in age. Some had no logo lights. Some had them, hardwired to be on whenever power was on the aircraft. Some had a switch in the cockpit, and some had a switch at the forward F/A position! So there is no set policy or rule. more of whatever the operator wants.
 
PhilSquares
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RE: Airline Pilots... Logo Light On/off?

Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:36 pm

Varies by operator. At SQ, it's turned on descending through 10,000 (FL100 if applicable) and off climbing out past 10,000.
Fly fast, live slow
 
dc10hound
Posts: 460
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 4:18 pm

RE: Airline Pilots... Logo Light On/off?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:12 pm

And sometimes operation is completely automatic, (if they are selected on):

When I'm at my house near BWI, and the Aer Lingus A330 departs from runway 28, while making the turn to a heading of 150, and climbing through an altitude of maybe 3000 feet, the logo light turns off. I swear, I could watch that plane for a week, and at the same spot in the sky, the light will turn off. Does anyone know if they can be set to turn off at a certain altitude?

Actually, this operation is not directly related to a certain altitude. On the A300-605R, the logo lights automatically turn off when the aircraft is in the air mode and the slats are retracted (before the AAL logo lights were deactivated). I imagine that slat retraction occurs at roughly the same point during departure. The lights will come on again during approach when the slats are extended.

Exterior compartment lights (wheel wells, APU compartment) operate the same way if they are left on by MX.

Should be the same on the A330...

(See more discussion at the link below)

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1785600/6/

"Eagles soar. But weasels never get sucked into jet intakes.."
 
AAR90
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RE: Airline Pilots... Logo Light On/off?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:26 pm

Some airlines don't even have logo lights installed - like American.

Actually some of our airplanes have logo lights (all 737s for example) and some do not (most MD80s for example). In either case, if installed the systems have been deactivated (once again) to save maintenance costs (third time in my AA career this has happened).
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
brodiebrazil
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2003 12:56 pm

RE: Airline Pilots... Logo Light On/off?

Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:41 pm

if installed the systems have been deactivated (once again) to save maintenance costs

sad in these days that such a nominal cost takes away from the pride of coming into town with your tail logo illuminated
 
Mr.BA
Posts: 3310
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: Airline Pilots... Logo Light On/off?

Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:25 pm

Logo lights are not mandatory. As mentioned above I think many airlines didn't have the logo lights installed or they won't replace it when the bulbs blow. Generally I see this trend on American carriers but european and especially asian carriers and Qantas usually are quite proud of their tails!
Boeing747 万岁!
 
ba299
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 9:18 pm

RE: Airline Pilots... Logo Light On/off?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:59 am

Here at BA the logo lights are switched on during all the ground time during dark hours as we are proud of our tails. In such airport for security reasons they must be turned off. Looking at the MEL the logo light are a category D so the maintenance interval are 120 days.

 
Convair990
Posts: 160
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 2:08 am

RE: Airline Pilots... Logo Light On/off?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:19 am

Ba299: At BA Are the MEL for components both inside and outside? From what I'm learning, the CDL (Configuration Deviation List) here generally lists the outside "go-no go" parts.

[Edited 2004-11-11 21:20:15]
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AJ
Posts: 2295
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:54 pm

RE: Airline Pilots... Logo Light On/off?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 12:08 pm

Our logo lights can be a deferred defect, our MEL allows 10 days for their repair.

Qantas SOP is logo lights on at night below 10,000' and when transiting Afgan airspace.
 
10mid
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:15 am

RE: Airline Pilots... Logo Light On/off?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 3:50 pm

At my company, we choose not to use logo lights at night as a sign of solidarity, since we are in contract negotiations. Sometimes we'll see one taxiing around with the lights on and will gently remind him on the radio. The other night at IAD, 2 us were in the run-up block waiting for release and the other had their logo lights on. A third company plane taxiied by and started flashing their logo lights on as a signal to the other.
 
DEN-HNL
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2000 8:38 am

RE: Airline Pilots... Logo Light On/off?

Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:03 pm

Why give free advertising to the company you're mad at?
Maybe because the carrier paid for/leased the aircraft?  Insane
John Hancock
 
ba299
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 9:18 pm

RE: Airline Pilots... Logo Light On/off?

Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:47 pm

Convair990: yes the logo lights (as all the others lights) are listed in the MEL.
 
VC-10
Posts: 3546
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: Airline Pilots... Logo Light On/off?

Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:30 pm

when did logo lights come into popular use?

We were fitting them to 707's in the mid 70's.

Airbus Logo lts are controlled by Ldg Gr & Flap position. On if legs compressed or Flaps greater than 15 Degrees
 
FlyingColours
Posts: 2202
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 3:13 am

RE: Airline Pilots... Logo Light On/off?

Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:13 pm

Well logo lights do have a few advantages, one of which is that on a dark night the controller can see you on the ground if you are heading the wrong way.

I can't think of any existing UK jet operator which doesn't have the logo lights on as much as posisble. I know the charters definitly have them on.

Phil
FlyingColours
Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
 
av757
Posts: 599
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 5:49 am

RE: Airline Pilots... Logo Light On/off?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:17 am

At my company AV, we as pilots stopped turning logo lights on when Alianza Summa's horrible and ugly new livery of the butterfly was painted on the tails of all of our fleet.

We hope to see a new AV livery soon, when that happens we shall proudly illuminate or tails once more.

Regards:
AV757
 
Mr Spaceman
Posts: 2723
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 5:09 am

RE: Airline Pilots... Logo Light On/off?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:38 am

Hi guys.

>> Av757, I see what you mean ............ Yuck!

The tail logo is to dainty.



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av757
Posts: 599
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 5:49 am

RE: Airline Pilots... Logo Light On/off?

Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:51 am

We hope to see something like this soon after our 85 year celebration on Dec 5, 2004 with some red included!!!!

We shall then once more turn on our logo lights to show off the Condor of The Andes on our tail feathers proudly.


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Best regards:
AV757

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